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How do you bridge the gap between rational sober discussion and the biased "philosophical" field of Christian Apologetics?

It's pretty much mainly in the question.. How do you all communicate with those types of people? That act like they have an absolute truth to the universe and not only that but they have evidence to prove it. I can't even understand them because it's such nonsense to me. I've even tried to read a Christian Apologetic book but all I did was feel intellectually molested afterwards. Do you think you have to be raised with a religion to be able to understand that mindset because I was never exposed to religion growing up. It's like you try to bring up the fact that all all religions are subjective cultural beliefs and they're just like "NO NO NO watch this video" and point you to something ridiculous that twists science and quote mines to make things compatible to their beliefs.

I need some insight into how to not want to reach out and shake these people or perhaps try to wake them up! I can understand that it is complete nonsense but I can't explain to them in a way they would understand or accept. Please help me!

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Permalink Reply by Tyler Holmstrom on November 11, 2012 at 7:26am

I usually just end up throwing my hands up in frustration. I recently pointed someone to the James Randi Foundation $1,000,000 challenge. If they are so confident they can prove their supernatural beliefs they can go there and make a ton of money ;)

Nobody has won the money to date.

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Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on November 11, 2012 at 8:21am

I love it when some of these dips claim that perception is just an illusion, especially when I've made a 30-year living which depended utterly on a commonality of perception, based in science and technology, and even more so when most of the arguments I've had with such people have been ONLINE. And to take that business one step further, there's a fair chance that the equipment I used to work on TESTED THOSE CHIPS in their computers, helped insure that the process which made them was under control, so that we could sit at our desks and argue about what constitutes reality.

It's not just that that these people are out of their senses; they want their senses to be overridden by their god. They truly want their responsibility for their lives to be usurped with the supposed second coming. Such an event is like tomorrow: it's always coming, but it never arrives.

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Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on November 11, 2012 at 6:08am

I haven't read much by way of christian apologetics directly, unless you want to include C. S. Lewis' The Screwtape Letters, which I read in college about a bazillion years ago, and I'm not sure I found it all that convincing even back then. A|N's own Steve Shives has dissected three such books brilliantly on his YouTube channel, and I am glad to recommend them to anyone who may be tempted by such drivel, especially from the pens of William Lane Craig or Lee Strobel.

Whether believers would be willing to listen to Shives' arguments is a toss-up at best, and I offer the comments on the above-mentioned videos as ample evidence thereof. The fact is, if the gap between them and us is to be bridged at all, They Have To WANT To Bridge It! ... and so long as they maintain the attitude of a True Believer, it's not going to happen.

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Permalink Reply by Tyler Holmstrom on November 11, 2012 at 7:16am

It's just frustrating when you're the minority in the room and everybody feels like they have evidence of divine powers.. and then you start to feel crazy which is scary in and of itself.

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Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on November 11, 2012 at 8:15am

Maybe it takes a while, not just to know but to OWN the knowledge that you not that crazy one ... and that they ARE. It took me a while, and maybe it was when that while had passed that I knew for certain that I was an atheist.

There's the old saw about "choosing your battles," that and recognizing that banging your head against theist bullshit is too often a waste of time and effort. Sometimes the best rejoinder you can give them is that you're not interested in converting them, just that you deserve NOT to be converted, the whole freedom of/from religion argument.

It's one tactic of many ... as is removing yourself from the room, if and when necessary.

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Permalink Reply by Tyler Holmstrom on November 11, 2012 at 10:19am

I really wish I had your knowledge and experience Loren. I think I just have too much pride is what it comes down to.

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Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on November 11, 2012 at 10:26am

Bro, I'm almost 62 years old ... with my share of experiences, including multiple burnt fingers. Do yourself a favor: don't play Don Quixote every time some dumb-ass tries to get your goat. Be who you are FIRST and more importantly, be at home with who you are. Can be a tall order, but from where I sit, it's the most important one, and while the rest may not just fall in line after that, I suspect the work to get it there is easier.