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How do you answer the argument that god exists from the supposed perfection of the universe?
I was just talking to my otherwise very smart, even brilliant friend (you've all heard this story before) and the first argument he gives me for why he believes in god (and is a Christian no less) is that he just couldn't believe that something so perfect as all this could exist without a god to create it. I took up the argument on other points, but I was wondering how y'all like to counter this bit of nonsense.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on -
Perfect, eh? How about:
- Breathing, eating and talking through ONE PIPE. Invitation to malfunction!
- Ebola, Hanta, cerebro-spinal meningitis, among several thousand other goodies
- The proverbial "recreation facility next door to a sewage farm." (hope I don't have to draw you a picture!)
- 70% of the planet is not especially habitable, and the rest has its own hazards!
A LOT of this I got courtesy of Neil deGrasse Tyson (who is just great fun, never mind fragging BRILLIANT!), and he says it WAY better than I do!
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Permalink Reply by Jedi Wanderer on -
Hah, thanks Loren! I finally got a chance to watch this, and it is pretty funny. First response was the best one!
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Permalink Reply by Edward Teach on -
The digestive systems of cows and rabbits are extremely imperfect. Catastrophic galactic events give a strong sense of imperfection. Best one to me is the EXTREME WASTE OF SPACE. In the big picture of the Universe, Earth is almost undetectable. God must be off his rocker to create a universe so ABSURDLY HUGE just for the tiny, invisible speck that is the Earth!
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Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on
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OUR G-I system ain't so hot either, Ed. Otherwise, I wouldn't keep TUMS and a laxative in my medicine chest!
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Permalink Reply by Edward Teach on
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Hahahaha... for me, its Prilosec!
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Permalink Reply by Tammy S on -
Hahaha I live on honey, Omeprazpole and Tums... yeah, far from perfect. Let's not even get into how our skin isn't even compatible with all environments and must be protected, if not from sun, then from wind and cold.... our very coating... totally imperfect, ask any woman my age fighting the wee, little lines!
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Permalink Reply by booklover on -
Nexium here. I also have a neuropathy of the digestive system which causes me to have such extreme nausea that all I can do is lay on the couch and cry. Nortryptolyne (sp?) helps it so I can have a good quality of life. It's not even made for that and it works. THANK SCIENCE!!!! :)
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Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on -
Actually, cattle and other ruminants (deer, sheep, gazelles, goats, bison, buffalo) have an excellently evolved, ideal digestive system, perfectly tuned to their environments and "designed" by evolution to provide complete nutrition from foods that most other animals cant eat - poor quality forages pastures prairies grasses. They eat the foods, their teeth are "designed" (evolved) for effective grinding of forage, and the chewed food passes into their rumens, they float around, mix, are regurgitated and rechewed and swallowed (rumination), and the bacterial consortium that evolved in symbiosis with the animals provides nutrition to feed these beasts that grow to hundreds, thousands of pounds. It's an example of finely tuned co-evolution. Not imperfect, and what imperfection there appears to be, is due to not meeting the goals of domestication, agricultural production, and human wants and needs.
As for rabbits, they practice copraphagy - the digesta is re-eaten so that the animals obtain the vitamin nutrition (B12) from their colonic bacteria. As humans, we might be grossed out by that, but I bet the rabbits don't mind and face it, rabbits multiply like rabbits across whole continents - also an example of finely tuned evolution.
As for humans, our diets are so artificial and inappropriate to how we evolved, and our life-style is so inappropriate, that we can't claim nature is responsible. It wouldn't be surprising if we become extinct in a few hundred years, if not sooner.
When we take them and breed the beasts for massive weight gain, meat production, and milk production, then feed them high energy grains and antibiotics, they don't work so well.
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Permalink Reply by Edward Teach on
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Hmmm... there are also some obvious design flaws in folks with genetic birth defects, terminal childhood diseases. For that matter, an extremely well designed species would require all of the medical science we depend on. Our sensory perceptions and our memories are also extremely inaccurate.
In a perfect universe, innocent people wouldn't be imprisoned and I wouldn't have to rely on spell check not to look like an idiot!
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Permalink Reply by Pamela Dale on -
I would suggest that your friend read Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion. The arguments were very compelling. I think this book lays out argument better than any verbal debate you could have with your friend. And its respectful while doing it.
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Permalink Reply by Steph S. on -
I agree with Pamela The God Delusion is a great book and I think your friend should read it.
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Permalink Reply by John Aultman on -
I don't mean to offend you or your friend but if he is "brilliant" and believes that humans, the world and the universe are perfect all due to a magic sky daddy then I suggest you raise your standard for brilliance.
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