In case you haven't seen it, the BBC hosted the Intelligence Squared Debate, which pitted Christopher Hitchens and actor/writer Stephen Fry against Archbishop John Onaiyekan and MP Ann Widdecombe from the Catholic Church. The subject was the motion "The Catholic Church is a force for good in the world". A vote was taken before the debate and another taken at the end. The results of the final vote were astonishing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvZz_pxZ2lw&feature=PlayList&...

Tags: Catholic, Fry, Hitchens, Stephen, debate

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i just finished watching the video. OMG!! very powerful. i absolutely loved it!! if you have half an hour's time, you must watch this. hitchens is brilliant! loved it! makes me so damn proud to be atheist!
check my videos - I posted the entire thing a few days ago : )
Oh man, did I enjoy that.

Unfortunately, I didn't see many points raised by the Catholic side... I was hoping they would bring up some real hard hitting points to be debated, but it seemed like more of the same "We're good, because we're catholic"... which is a complete avoidance of the questions raised.

The only point the Catholics raised was that they haven't committed anything atrocious LATELY... which is complete and utter ignorance, you merely have to ask homosexuals what they think of that to get some real perspective. Sure, the Catholics haven't gone as far as killing the homosexuals in a spree of mass genocide, unlike how they've treated previous dislikes... but they certainly aren't treating them as equal humans either.

All in all, this was an exercise in futility for the Catholic debaters. If you engage in open, educated, and balanced discussion, irrational views are likely to fall apart.

I almost felt sorry for them when the final results were 200 something for Catholics being a force of good, and 1,800 something against.
Unfortunately, I didn't see many points raised by the Catholic side... I was hoping they would bring up some real hard hitting points to be debated, but it seemed like more of the same "We're good, because we're catholic"... which is a complete avoidance of the questions raised.

Unless the Catholics are wretched old nuns or pedophile priests, you won't find anything hard hitting or raised.
lol, good one.
I almost spat my coffee out... lol.
I remember when I first started watching this.

My first thought was, 'Who the hell AGREES to pit themselves against Chris Hitchens AND Stephen Fry?!'
Yes the Pope is a total douche bag. And should be in prison for accessory to child abuse. However, unless there is evidence that he was a member of the Nazi Party outside of being a Hitler Youth, he should not be labeled as a Nazi.

I don't care what country you're from but if you are an impressionable youth surrounded by overwhelming and effective propaganda while your country is at war, you're very likely to very patriotic towards your nation. And unfortunately the means to do so was to join the Hitler youth. He may have even been conscripted - I don't know.

Note, this is not a defense of 'I was just following orders' defense. That is a completely different issue regarding adults who should known what they were doing.

To call Ratzy a Nazi simply because he was a Hitler Youth would be unfair to other unknowing young Germans who became a Hitler Youth.
In that regard yes you're right. I would use the term fascist. Nazi has too much linkage with WWII. Using Nazi reminds me too much of the tea baggers calling Obama a Nazi (and at the same time a communist - dumb asses.)

He recently told Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez that the Latin American genocides which were precipitated directly from the papal Doctrine of Discrovery were for "their own good" because "deep down inside, the indigenous Americans were yearning for Christ." Seriously. Chavez told him off, and rightly so. I applaud Hugo Chavez for speaking the truth to His (ass)holianness's face.

Yes I heard the same bullshit.
It was good to see. Thanks for posting!
Thanks for posting the YouTube link. I watched the video this morning and enjoyed it thoroughly. The Catholic proponents offered little in the way of rebuttal to Hitchens' and Fry's charges. About all they seemed to do was express their outrage that the charges were brought up in the first place, along with the pointed questions that were asked later. The fact that the vote against the Catholic Church increased dramatically after the second polling is a good indication of the intellectual and ethical impoverishment of the Church's moral and political posturing. The Catholic debaters made asses of themselves and were roundly trounced. I sincerely hope that the unedited version of this debate soon becomes available on DVD.
The thing is that the military will discharge people for crimes like raping children.

The Vatican seems to go about it in an entirely different direction with their priests. If they would excommunicate child rapists with the speed that they excommunicate victims of rape who get abortions, I would be inclined to respect them more.

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