Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tom Thompson on July 14, 2010 at 6:14am

Why don't you clear up what 'agnostic' means to you and why you wish to hang out here?

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Permalink Reply by Matthew Paulino on July 14, 2010 at 6:18am

Simply put, I doubt that religion has the answer to the question of god. On the flip side of the coin, I do not believe atheists have provide adequate proof in proving god to be false. The reason I'm here is that I came across this site through stumbleupon, and I thought this was an interesting forum to read from. I spent the last few years trolling and lurking around Christian forums, so I thought I'd check out the other side for once.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Thompson on July 14, 2010 at 6:26am

It is not difficult to show how the gods described in the Bible, Qur'an, the Bhagvad Gita, and those described by other mysticisms are ridiculously improbable so it is easy to be atheistic with regards to those gods. If you wish to maintain that it is impossible to disprove the existence of a supernatural being but disbelieve in the god of organized religion then you may rightly call yourself an agnostic atheist. The two are not mutually exclusive.

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Permalink Reply by Johannes S. on July 14, 2010 at 6:32am

The problem with us atheists not proving god to be false is that we can't prove mermaids to be false.

There are stories of mermaids in nearly every culture. There are people claiming experience with mermaids and stories of mermaids appearing in people's dreams. There is even evidence (well, bad evidence, but still) of mermaids (or mermaid-like creatures).


However, when someone claimed that mermaids existed, you would immediately think they fell on their heads as a child or have some sort of neurological condition...

There is more evidence of mermaids than there is of God (for whom there is none), however people believe in God instead of mermaids.



My point is, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Anything that can be asserted without evidence can be as easily dismissed without evidence.

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Permalink Reply by Johannes S. on July 14, 2010 at 6:17am

If your answer to the question of "Do you believe there is a God" or "Is there a God?" is anything other than "Yes", you are

a) welcome
b) an atheist.



All atheism is, is lack of belief in a God.

(A)theism is about belief. (A)gnosticism is about knowledge.


I am an agnostic atheist. Being an agnostic and an atheist are not mutually exclusive things.


It really depends on your level of (a)theism whether you are welcome here.

Here are the levels as Richard Dawkins put it in his extremely well-written book, "The God Delusion":


1. Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung, 'I do not believe, I know.'

2. Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. De facto theist. 'I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there.'

3. Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. 'I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.'

4. Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic. 'God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.'

5. Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism. 'I do not know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be sceptical.'

6. Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist. 'I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.'

7. Strong atheist. 'I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung "knows" there is one.'




Personally, I'm a 6, leaning towards 7. If you are in the 5-7 category you are very welcome here.

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Permalink Reply by Matthew Paulino on July 14, 2010 at 6:20am

I have not read that book, though I suppose I should pick it up. Based on the chart, I'm at about a 3-4ish.

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Permalink Reply by Johannes S. on July 14, 2010 at 6:22am

As long as you are not a 1 or 2, I welcome you. However, it really isn't for me to decide.

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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Rice on July 14, 2010 at 8:47am

I am very interested in reading The God Delusion. His scale for atheism is very similar to the book I am reading now-godless by Dan Barker. Have you read that one? Is The God Delusion good? I am reading that next.

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Permalink Reply by Johannes S. on July 14, 2010 at 9:45am

It's extremely good. I got through it very easily, and didn't get bored once. The best writing on Atheism I have ever read, the second being "Letter to a Christian nation" by Sam Harris.

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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Rice on July 14, 2010 at 9:54am

Thanks for the response and suggestions. I have heard of the Sam Harris book and also was interested in it. Thanks. Godless is my first atheist book and planning on reading more. I want to also read Dale McGowan's books Parenting Beyond Belief and Raising Freethinkers.

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Permalink Reply by JayBarti on July 14, 2010 at 8:42am

Technically this place would better be named non-theist nexus, but that doesn't roll off the tongue so well.

I called myself an agnostic for a long time, however now I am firmly in the strong atheist camp (7) any time I am confronted about anyones god(s) and a apatheist the rest of the time.

P.S. the strong atheist position is very understandable when you consider the question of god to be just as relevant as the same question being asked about the existence of santa and the easter bunny. Why should I have to continually defend myself from obvious fairy tales.

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Permalink Reply by Johannes S. on July 14, 2010 at 9:37am

There's no difference between Non-Theist and Atheist.

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