Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain said Sunday that communities have a right to ban Islamic mosques.

Appearing on "Fox News Sunday," the former Godfather's Pizza CEO said protests and legal challenges to a planned mosque in Tennessee city are an example of local residents pushing back.

Cain said his view doesn't amount to religious discrimination because he says Muslims are trying to inject Shariah law into the U.S.

http://news.yahoo.com/herman-cain-communities-ban-mosques-231949077...

 

This is bad.  I hope the other candidates don't pick up this mantra.  I'm not nuts about Islam, but Muslims have just as much right to practice their religion as anyone else.  I think Herman Cain and his ilk are just sorry they haven't been able to get the christian laws forced on the rest of us. 

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I would be interested in hearing your opinion about the Arab Spring phenomenon and the uprisings in the Middle East by young people that want to enter the modern world but retain ethnic pride in being Muslim...not the jihadist version that Westerners fear, but the peaceful version. 

 

Like many Americans, I am not in contact with any American Muslims in my daily life nor am I knowledgeable about their religious customs...but I have to believe that you cannot really compare American Muslims to the Muslims living in the governments and economic systems of the Middle East or in Asia.  Aren't we being prejudiced to say that all Muslims are 'anti-American' or a threat to 'the American way of life' (whatever THAT is)?  A lot of what the terrorists have done has been based on a revenge motive...retaliation for what was perceived to be done by the West and by our support of Israel.  A lot is economically based, as well. 

 

I certainly don't mean to sympathize with Islamists, who kill indiscriminately and incite terror in the name of their religion but making the assumption that mosques in America breed terrorists sounds like an overstatement.  The American 'way of life' to me is freedom of expression and protection of civil liberties...even religious group membership....without the fear of government intrusion.  Minority religions should get the same protection under the law as those in the majority.  Equal protection.

 

 

I would be interested in hearing your opinion about the Arab Spring phenomenon and the uprisings in the Middle East by young people that want to enter the modern world but retain ethnic pride in being Muslim...not the jihadist version that Westerners fear, but the peaceful version.

I would first of all say or recommend is that to take my opinion only seriously when it comes to Iran and Iranians on this issue as I am not Arab and it is kind of hard to gage all the events going on in the Arabic world.

In regards to Iran, Iranians demand nothing more than a pure secular democracy that has nothing to do with religion. Iran is completely unique in the region compared to other Arabic/Islamic countries as we do not want any form of Shariah or Islam in a free and democratic Iran. As Iranians, we have our own Iranian culture which pre-dates Islam - this is from our Persian New Year to our other cultural traditions/celebrations and Iranians have learned the hard way about the true evils of Islam. I have said this before, the only positive thing about the Islamic Republic the last 30+ years is that it has allowed Iranians to see what Islam when practiced devoutly can lead to - and in turn, I truly believe that a future and democratic Iran will mean the demise of Islamic influence inside of Iran - and when I am older, the vast majority of Iranians will no longer even call themselves Muslim.

As of recently in fact, I visited Iran and spent 8+ months there so it was truly a unique opportunity for me. I had an opportunity to be in Iran and taste Iranian culture and the oppressive government like no other - since I was there as both an Iranian and an American. 90% of the populace is against the regime and out of the 10% who may support the regime - the vast majority are for practical reasons such as jobs and providing a meal on the table for their families. This regime has less than 2-3% hardcore supporters but Iran is a country of 70+ million, so 2-3% is a significant portion. In addition, they have uniquely built their regime in which all the different institutions of government check on each other to ensure loyalty and to purge and execute those who are disloyal. It is sort of a regime inside of a regime inside of a regime type-of system with a big honcho on top. And this is a regime that will kill every last Iranian to keep power - in fact, they rape our young sisters before executing them so that they don't "die as virgins" as they believe "virgins go straight to heaven" - so to even deny them this privilege.

 

As for the Arab Spring - I truly believe that the freedom movements going on around the world are a direct result of the liberations of Afghanistan and Iraq and President Bush's "Freedom Initiative". While not waving American flags - the people in the region have seen that these brutal dictators are not "god-like" and are not indispensable. I think that a lot of this is psychologically motivated resulting from the overthrow of Saddam and the fact we caught him in a hole. Once Saddam was overthrown, Ghaddafi out of his fear and other reasons - gave up his nuclear program. This made him look extremely weak among his own people. I feel that even though the Arabic people may still consider themselves Muslim and be more devout (compared to my descriptions of Iranians) they still want to live in freedom as I believe freedom is an innate human need - especially among young people who now have access to the internet and satellite television. Before 9/11 Bin Laden had huge popularity around the Arab world - now it is nil in most Arabic/Islamic countries. But I think we must be careful - especially in Egypt - the people are still Islamic and a recent Pew Research poll of the Egyptian population demonstrated that 84% of Muslim Egyptians favor the death penalty for apostasy (anyone leaving Islam) and a vast majority support the death penalty for homosexuality. So we must be very careful in regards to the Islamic Brotherhood's influence in future elections in Egypt.

 

In regards to American-Muslims, fortunately most of them don't take their faith seriously and are not religious. They may call themselves Muslims - but most don't practice their religion. As for the reasons for the actions of Muslim terrorists - while their propaganda may serve them well by claiming to have "revenge" issues like the ones you mentioned - most of that is just propaganda. With or without Israel - terrorism would exist - except, more of the terrorist activity would be focused in Europe. And it is quite ironic that with Islamic terrorists/suicide bombers, quite a high number of them tend to not be economically depraved and come from middle-class or even well-off backgrounds.

Back to American Muslims, I do not for a second claim that most of them are anti-American. I have stated that the vast majority of them are not religious. For the ones who are religious and devout and attend mosque regularly - there is the call for concern. An average American Muslim would not attend a mosque - but even then, I would say the majority who do attend mosque are peaceful and probably older people who simply follow their religion because that is all they know - kind of like my grandparents. They are great people, not anti-American at all, but are religious because they are old - but even they, despise the Mullahs and organized religion mixed with government. But - back to the mosque issue - it is a concern as the best place for jihadists and radical Muslims to gather together to recruit and be under the radar for radical activities, has tended to be in the mosque, particularly in Europe. Based on my knowledge on Islam - there is no doubt that Islam is inherently based on radical teachings - therefore, I would keep an eye out on mosques as it is common sense - it is about the security of our nation.

But you are right - it is a slippery slope with American constitutional guarantees and civil liberties - but then we must balance that with protection of our country and our people. I do believe in the Patriot Act - I do believe in not allowing terrorists to abuse our system and our civil liberties - so it is a slippery slope - but I do believe the mosque is a dangerous area which can lead to recruitment and organization of terrorists. For example, a mosque here in Orange County had ties with the Islamic Republic and these same people from the mosque went out during the Iranian protests in 2009 and took pictures/videos of those who protested in L.A. and Orange County against the regime. It is a slippery-slope, but I just wanted to share my 2-cents on this issue.

Yes, very good response Sassan
I think the key to all that is the Enlightenment, with its emphasis on reason and freedom of conscience.  There is, though, a tremendous amount of violence and genocide in the Bible and in the history of the Christian religion.  If Christians followed the Bible literally--and some say we should--the Christian world would be just as violent as any other.  The Enlightenment and subsequent scientific progress allowed thinking Christians to interpret the Bible metaphorically.  The evangelical insistence on Biblical literalism today and the influence evangelicals have is the upshot of the fundamentalist backlash at the end of the 19th century.
Are you really citing wikipedia page length to support your argument that islamic terrorism is more prevalent then christian terrorism?
No, he cited Wikipedia in the first place as evidence of "Christian terrorism" - I was just playing his own game with him.
Sassan, read up on some Northern Ireland history from that last 400 years or so.  And almost every terror plot against this country by radical muslim extremists since 9/11 have been INDIVIDUAL attacks.  As for your statements that there are no Christians who act like savages, look at Africa.  There are some christian governments over there that execute gay people, because it defies God.  So, I believe that makes christian terrorism a global issue as well.  Just my two cents.

False - Christians don't resort to terrorism.

 

Wow. Really?

 

Events that solely occurred on command of church authorities or were committed in the name of Christianity. (List incomplete)

 

http://notachristian.org/christianatrocities.html

 

But here's the funny part...

 

Most Muslim Arabs in the Middle East view the United States' invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq, among other events such as U.S. warships and military installations throughout the Middle East and U.S. support for an apartheid Israel in the exact same way that you seem to view Muslim Arabs...violent terrorist crusaders bent on destroying Islam. When you make statements such as the one above, what you're doing is tossing fear, hate and intolerance into a religious mirror...

 

-GA

And you give false excuses and are part of the excuse-making leftist mutliculturalist masochistic crowd. Islamic terrorism really has nothing to do with U.S. policy - it has to do with the quran and hadith. When you make such claims - you do their propaganda work for them. Islamists know this to be true - the claims of "grievances" such as the one you mentioned are simple propaganda - Islamist terrorists are guided to terror against the west until they occupy the west as is their duty by the hadith and their Islamic faith.

To add: the topography might be reflected to U.S. policy - but not the terror and western expansion which is part of the hadith. Islamic terrorist jihadists are fighting for western domination and the only way to win the war on terror is what we are exactly doing: taking the fight to the terrorists and eliminating them.

Explain exactly how we win a war of ideology with military might?  If you'd look around you, we're going the way of the soviets due to our "taking the fight to the terrorists."

Islam is a religion. Those that practice Islam are called "Muslims", not "Islamists". 

 

You're missing my point. You possess a false, ignorant and dangerous view of about one quarter of the world's population. 1.6 billion Muslims live and work all over the world, just like Christians do. They have families and bills and all the same concerns and problems as any other demographic. 

 

Wholesale condemnation and a desire to "eliminate" an entire ethnic and religious population leads to very dark places, as history has shown. Following through with such ideas is known as "genocide".

 

I have no love for any religious institution...whatsoever. I view all religion as inherently immoral. At the same time I have no need, nor does it further any sort of worthy agenda for me to adopt every ugly, fear-ridden aspect of the very thing I am condemning in order to more effectively condemn it, as you are with Islam.

 

...this is known as "hypocrisy".  

 

Having been to Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar and having known hundreds of Muslims, I can assure you that your stance is in every way identical to the way many reactionary Muslims think of the West.

 

-GA

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