Help Me Figure It Out Please...

So here, i raised in a religious family, but then for this one last year, i met these new people who are my good friends now. and they all are agnostic, or atheist (?) (oh, I don’t really understand the difference between atheist and agnostic, could u help me with that too?). so we share our minds, and now the case is that i'm like on the borderline of atheist and believer (i never really was a religious person myself).


I’m kinda person who tend to think from both sides, from different views there are there -which usually helps me to draw solid reason for anything- but for this thing, i don't have good enough.. umm.. lets say complete knowledge from both views, and i really need some solid reasons to draw a conclusion about god. So I’m really hoping that u guys would help me with these questions inside my head.

So here we go…:)


What makes u so sure that there's no god?


Here’s the thing. You know how the universe work, the process of the nature, and many other things about life.


By knowing those things, what makes you not thinking that, “this is the way god does his thing”?


If you say, ‘because there is no god!’, then there is where my question laid, ‘what makes you so sure about it, that it’s not even a possibility?’ (That there is god and this is how he’s doing his job).


Or maybe u’re actually thinking that it is possible. But because it’s just a possibility which is uncertain, you chose to believe that there is no god. Are u guys thinking like this?


I don’t know whether I’m a believer, religious, nonbeliever, atheist, liberal, or whatsoever right now. But I gotta tell u not to worry when u’re answering my questions, cause I’m a very open minded person. Maybe u’ll find me inconsistent in taking sides, but the thing is that I tend to think from many different points of views to find the best answer which actually makes me argue with myself a lot and eventually makes even more questions coming out.


So that’s why I need u to help me :)


Thanks a lot! Good day!

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Permalink Reply by joey kurt flockheart on August 9, 2010 at 12:40pm
I see that complete lack of evidence that such a god exists what makes most of atheist chose to be atheist. But what if thinking like this, "if there's no evidence of god existence, does it mean he doesn't exist? maybe he does, maybe he doesn't right? then isn't it safer just to try to believe in him, cause we got nothing to lose. if there's god we'll be perfectly fine and if there's no god then it cost us nothing. i think if u think it would be easier to believe that there's no god is kinda apathetic"
what do u think?
Permalink Reply by Rob van Senten on August 9, 2010 at 1:37pm
"if there's no evidence of god existence, does it mean he doesn't exist?"

No, it doesn't mean that he does not exist, it just means that there are no reasons to have a belief (in the absence of evidence) in such a deity.

then isn't it safer just to try to believe in him

Which deity? There are literally thousands of deities that you can choose from. They all have the same amount of evidence in their favor; absolutely nothing.

And what if this god is omniscient? Faking belief wouldn't help much in that case, wouldn't it?

Atheism is about applying the principle of the Null Hypothesis to the proposition of the existence of a deity.

Belief only exists in the absence of evidence and it's a more rational decision to apply the null hypothesis to any unproven assertion then to blindly assume the truth value of that proposition.

"What makes u so sure that there's no god?"

I'm not, I'm an atheist which means that I lack a belief in (a) God. I do not claim to have absolute truth and knowledge at my disposal, I do know a thing or two about the scientific principle which is by far the most effective tool that we can use to ascertain the credibility of certain propositions.
I'm as sure about the non existence of deities as I am about the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, witches, wizards, faeries and sprites.

"what makes you so sure about it, that it’s not even a possibility?"

The existence of a deity of some sort is possible, I cannot proof a negative such as that no deity could exist.
When people start to subscribe attributes to these deities I am however often able to refute that specific deity because of falsehoods and internal contradictions. The description of the Christian omniscient, omnipresence, omnipotent God for instance, contains an internal contradiction which means I have evidence that such a being could not exist.

It's all about the definition of the word "God" which is as varied as people.

"But because it’s just a possibility which is uncertain, you chose to believe that there is no god.

I don't like the word belief in the context of observable reality because I am a skeptic and I demand to be convinced (by evidence) of the validity of an argument. Belief can only exist in the absence of evidence. I do not belief that there is no God, I am simply not convinced that there is one.

The principle of the burden of proof and the null hypothesis force me to disregard the possibility of the existence of a deity because of a lack of evidence.

I'm sure that it's different for other atheists, a big part of "us"* however arrive at the conclusion of atheism because of logic, rational thinking and a staggering lack of evidence.

Also, why do theists so thoughtlessly disregard all other religions and deities except their own?

Stephen Roberts:
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours"
Permalink Reply by Prog Rock Girl on August 9, 2010 at 12:36pm
Atheist: lack of belief in a god. For most it is not believing that there is no god so much as it is lacking belief that there is a god. So it's more of an absence of belief than a belief. There are some, though, who positively believe god doesn't exist.

Agnostic actually means believing that it is impossible to know whether a god exists or not.

When it comes to gods of specific religions, there is more evidence that they don't exist because the religions have made many claims, which either clearly were not true (such as claims that the world would end on such and such a date, or that they can heal by faith) or don't make sense when they are examined (religious people give God credit for their lives being saved, but why didn't God prevent their sickness/injury/dismemberment in the first place?) etc. There is not so much evidence against a god in the general sense of a creator or central intelligence, although also not much evidence for it.
Permalink Reply by Clarence Dember on August 9, 2010 at 12:37pm
For one thing, the idea of god can not be a real noun. Nouns are sensibly defined by sensible characteristics. These things are both finite and discernible to anyone with senses. It's more a matter of the lack of evidence which leaves me with the conclusion the idea of god is a kind of man made theatrical device imposed on the narrative of human existence by some rather ignorant possible senseless individuals who are working against certainty and rationality.

These things are like time bombs meant to blow up your rational process from the foundation, once you've begun to think for yourself seeking rational criterion for reality. When these god ideas are put into your lessons of life early on, before the age of knowing consent, it becomes that much harder to edit them out after your grown up. However, the software running your brain is ultimately your responsibility. If your content with mystical ideas running amok in your subconscious, you might ask how did you come to accept such rubbish? Likely it was programmed in before you could judge it as false. You must edit the false ideas out if you wish to think clearly, factually about anything.

Look for the evidence which proves a thing is real and the lack of evidence to prove a thing is ill conceived. Do not shrink from judgment on the criteria you have assigned to denote reality.

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