Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mark Schwab on February 16, 2012 at 10:08am

Hey David,

I actually saw some of the Dead Sea Scrolls at an exhibition in San Diego a few years back. There were stories about the content of the various pieces, and among other things, it was noted that the book of Psalms was the most complete of the early bible books represented. What struck me ( and which i pointed out to my Christen wife, who conveniently ignored it) was a comment I read in the literature that this version of Psalms differed significantly in content and in some other way (which escapes me now) than the version we currently have in the current Bible. This would tend to undermine the claim that this books is God's anointed word coming down to us unchanged through history. Oh course, a current bible scholar could always claim that this early sect of people "got the book wrong", but that seems unlikely given the early date of the writings. I do not remember much beyond that, and you may want to do a search to verify what i am saying, but it certainly is ammunition against the claim about this book being "unerring" -Just thought you might find that interesting. Take care

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Crazy Cat Lady on February 19, 2012 at 10:58am

Any of the Gnostic sources. Any sources on the Arian controversy as they did not believe in the trinity. the First Council of Nicaea @ 325 CE was set up to deal with followers of Arius. 

Alternative gospels such as the Gospal of Judas (which has no resurrection btw)  or the Gospel of Thomas.

Sources and definitions can be found at: 

 http://www.gnosis.org/library.html

For secondary sources anything by by Bart D. Ehrman. 

http://www.amazon.com/Bart-D.-Ehrman/e/B001I9RR7G/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Matt VDB on February 22, 2012 at 9:37am

The problem with quoting Gnostic sources though, is that informed Christians will point out that these are much later documents which put their theology before the evidence even more than the other gospels do.

Truth be told, they're right. The Gospel of Judas etcetera are interesting reads, but due to their date and the clear influence of later evolved Gnostic theology, their ability to tell us anything about the historical Jesus or even just contradict the other Gospels is very limitied. Most Christians aren't going to be impressed by that.

Bart Ehrman is a better suggestion, along with Geza Vermes or Paula Frederiksen. They do a really good job of showing the historical and Jewish context of early Christian belief, and how they evolved into the more advanced versions of Christology which we see in the later documents. Ultimately that's the way to debunk Christianity at its core.

The downside is that it's a long and rather complicated set of reads, not a quick stumper or anything like that. But hey, that tends to be the case with serious topics.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by SecularCortex13.x on February 24, 2012 at 7:13am

divine what? ass...

anyhew; yeah sure my fav from rap artist actually mix of concrete jungle Rakim/Marley
"you need to read psalms 82:6

"ye are gods..."
okay!? so the instruction manual to bigotry and abuse of the human (or humankind for that matter)
states you're a god and go play god... what a joke.. bs sky daddy lame ass burn all the books.. screw it.
keep a couple copies around for a good laugh (oh the ezekiel stuff about LSD trippin in the sky creatures fun fun..) who cares.

• ▶ Reply