Have you ever converted someone to Atheism?`

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Permalink Reply by LittlePig on April 27, 2009 at 5:11pm

I'm not sure how anyone could be converted to a non-system of no-beliefs. Atheism, as it is used today by many self-proclaimed atheists, is the lack of belief in deities. A great many cosmological perspectives would fall into the atheism umbrella, but it in itself doesn't describe any beliefs, values, or ways of thinking. It is a negative description, not a positive one. Some take that so far as to say that we are born atheists (IMO, a tad ridiculous). Anything to grow a group, right?

Personally I don't see the value in 'deconversion' or 'deprogramming.' Theists and atheists are much more than their beliefs (or lack thereof). Chosen cosmologies or mythologies play a role in identity, but that role is neither necessarily beneficial nor harmful. However, extremists from all camps tend to be obnoxious, and sometimes even harmful. And for some people, religion is an almost essential structure for morality and meaning in life. Taking that away and giving less in return seems unneighborly.

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Permalink Reply by LittlePig on April 27, 2009 at 7:04pm

The 'lack' and 'absence' distinction is a good one.

Personally I don't use 'atheist' to describe myself since there are more precise, positive terms. And there seems to be a lot of confusion over even the basic definition of the term among atheists.

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Permalink Reply by Kingsley on April 27, 2009 at 8:46pm

I'm agreed on your first two paragraphs. When asked my religion I reply "none" and would describe my predominate philosophical position as either material rationalist or rational materialist (with a healthy dose of other ideas thrown in).

The third paragraph just makes me so glad I was born and live in the UK rather than the US. Although, the desecularisation of our country over the last ten years is becoming frightening.

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Permalink Reply by Kingsley on April 27, 2009 at 8:15pm

Instead, again, by definition; from the Greek, "a" means no or without. Therefore, "atheism," in its purest and most basic form, is the absence of belief. Nothing is lacking in the mind of the atheist.

I'd actually go slightly further than this in the purest form; atheism is without a specific definition of deity. Both deists and pantheists could strictly be called atheists. I'm certainly far more agnostic about the later two forms of deity than I am about theism, although I tend to see both as being ultimately irrelevant to the human condition.

IOW, I could probably describe myself as a nearly gnostic-atheist and an agnostic-adeist and agnostic-apantheist.

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Permalink Reply by Jack Harris on June 20, 2010 at 1:01am

No converts yet but it's not for a lack of trying. People don't care to listen to me for some reason...

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Permalink Reply by Glenn Sogge on June 20, 2010 at 7:01pm

Not that I know of. (And, I too, don't like the word "converted.") But I do have a Facebook friend who is on the fence and says that my manner has helped him deal with the real questions and not get involved in a personality fracas. I did directly pose a question to him awhile back that he said occupied most of his thinking on a long drive for a family outing: For what question is "God" the answer?

Still a work in progress, I believe.

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Permalink Reply by Roxanne on June 21, 2010 at 4:47am

I've converted a co-worker to agnosticism. It's a start. And he's still reading books on atheism.

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Permalink Reply by Sameer on June 22, 2010 at 8:06am

I didnt converted anyone to Atheism.Iam living in a place where many religious people are there. Its not because of that.I dont use to interfere in others business and i dont like anyone interfering in mine.

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Permalink Reply by Scott Bidstrup on June 22, 2010 at 10:20am

It is my view that the key to "converting" people to atheism is to get them to think critically for themselves.

I grew up a fourth-generation Mormon from a pioneer family in Idaho. The town in which I grew up was solidly Mormon, and outside ideas were decidedly unwelcome if they conflicted in any way with church doctrine. And while attending BYU, I actually heard a General Authority come right out and say in front of the entire student body of 25,000 students, "Don't think for yourself. The thinking has already been done for you!"

The undoing of my faith came as a result of hearing constantly from my professors of the need for critical though and self-introspection, and yet hearing that comment caused a cognitive dissonance that set me down the road of critical analysis of Mormon doctrine. It didn't take me long to figure out that it was a cult, and it didn't take long after that to realize that Christianity itself had similar doctrinal problems and inconsistencies.

So the upshot is that it was critical thinking that made the difference for me, as it has for most people who have left religion. I think that our best shot at undermining religion is to get people to think critically for themselves - and that pays society many other benefits besides just the undermining of superstitious belief.

So if we really want to "convert" people to atheism (and I think that word is a poor choice for a variety of reasons), we need to encourage critical thinking skills in the public education system. The Christians can't oppose that for the obvious reason that it is so beneficial in so many ways - and they don't realize that it would undermine their "faith"-based education. That is why they all pay lip service to the need for it. Well, let's take them at their word and promote it.

After that, as a movement, we need to start breaking down the stereotypes that religion tars us with, such as the hedonist, nihilist stereotype. We need to convince people that they really won't become morally squalid because they have lost religion. We need to educate people to the fact that people are good because they see themselves as good, and that they obey laws and moral principles because they see themselves as contributing members of society, not because they fear some sort of divine retribution. We can back that up with statistics that show that, for example, subscriptions to pornographic web sites are higher, per capita, in places where religion is strongest, as are teenage pregnancies - demonstrating that religion has no real moralizing power.

First, live as an example. Then teach the importance of critical thinking, reason, logic and understanding basic philosophical principles. With that, people will see there is no reason to fear a loss of "faith" and will discover that there are lots of good reasons to welcome it.

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Permalink Reply by James M. Martin on August 27, 2010 at 7:25am

I think you are right on this (that critical thinking and development of that ability). For me, it was exposure to Nietzsche, Harris, et al., but also to the semanticists and philosophers who examined belief from the standpoint of logic. Probably a major influence in this realm was the Aussie philosopher, John Leslie Mackie, who approached the subject with the argument from evil. He posited that an omnipotent god who is "good" is a logical impossibility since such a deity would not allow evil to befall man. Alvin Platinga came along and countered with the familiar answer of many Christers: "God gave man freedom of will and it is man who chooses to disobey God and commit evil acts." To this, it is only necessary to ask, "Then why didn't this omnipotent, good god see to it than man always chooses good?" They have no answer.

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Permalink Reply by William C. Walker on August 27, 2010 at 10:22am

That's a very cogent argument James. With fundamentalists, it's like trying to teach a pig to whistle. It don't work, & it irritates the pig. :-)

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Permalink Reply by Scream on June 22, 2010 at 3:55pm

I've freed 5 minds to date....inviting them to think critically does it every time. That's followed by having them pick up a copy of Sam Harris' Letter to a Christian Nation, Some "Jesus-Camp" and the God Delusion (audio book format owns!!!)

Unplug them from the system and give them reality :)

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