I cant remember my bible stories well enough to know how many times God has created
life on earth only to distroy it all because he didnt like the way things turned out.
I can only remember the great flood, can someone name the other "mass extinctions"
by the hand of God?
I was having a conversation with my christian cousin about the meaning of the word
omnisient as used in the bible.
She said that the the word has been missunderstood to mean that god can know the future.
God knows everything there is to know, but the future has not happened yet, therfore, it is unknowable, even by god!
The word omniscient does not mean knowing the future, it only means knowing everything there is to know in the present tense.
In other words, god could not have known that his earthly creations would be unsatisfactory to him, hence, distroy it and start over!
She said that nowhere in the bible does it say that god knows the future, only that he
is "all knowing", which does not necessisarily mean knowing what will happen in the future.
I believe the bible does say god knows all things, past and future, but can not site
Maybe someone who knows the bible better then I can chime in :)
Merde. Either Big Daddy knows it ALL, past, present and future, or he/she/it doesn't. If a billiard player can determine where the targets of his cue ball will be after his play and some deity (who is also supposed to be omnipotent, while we're at it) can't anticipate the outcome of creating intelligent beings with putative free will, then we must be talking about some off-the-rack at Walmart god and not the real deal. Oh, and while we're at it, why should this deity's prophets be able to predict the future when he allegedly can't?!?
Trying to qualify or water down an absolutist term such as omniscient amounts to more apologetic BS.
The problem with discussing the made-up abilities of a made-up being is that there's no way of actually determining whether it's true or not.
Omniscience is generally held to mean at least limited knowledge of the future.
Some sample bible verses you could use in your discussions:
Psalm 139:16 - "all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be."
Psalm 139:4 - "Before a word is on my tongue you, LORD, know it completely."
Isaiah 46:10 - (god) make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come.
If you want to really get in depth, here are some excellent sources:
Omniscience and Divine Foreknowledge - Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy
Omniscience- Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
George, your input is exactly the kind of info I am looking for, thanks much :)
I am looking for any bible verse which mentions god's omniscience in the future tense, not
simply, knower of all things (which may or may not include the future).
"Stanley it sounds like your christian friend adheres to a christian interpretation called "open theism" where yahweh knows everything there is to know but since the future hasn't happened yet then there is nothing there for yahweh to know. This is considered heretical by traditional christianity as far as i understand but it is growing in popularity as christians try to explain the bible passages that clearly show yahweh and/or jesus do not know the future."
Yes, that is her belief, you put it well and I am enjoying your posts on the subject, very enlightening.
If omniscience does not include knowing the future, this eliminates the philosophical paradox completely, thus an argument asserting that god can not be the god of the bible because his omniscience is inconsistent with logic and the bible it's self becomes a moot point.
She asserts that nowhere in the bible does jesus (god) say he knows all future things. Only his deciples say this.
So what I am looking for is bible verse which is said to be the very words of god himself (a quote, if you will!!).
How about the book of revelation?
It's all about the future that hasn't happened yet, but is supposedly awaiting us in the final days
God sure knew that future, he also knows he will defeat devil in the final battle.
It seems that faith is a very powerful "blinder".
I too am uterly amazed that people still believe what is writen in the bible when it is obviously contradictory, and yet the "perfect" word of god at the same time!!??
There is absolutly nothing in the bible which could not have been known at the time it was written.
If the bible contained such profound prophecies, it would have mentioned important breakthroughs in human development; dinosaurs, splitting the atom, mapping the human genome, space travel, quantum mechanics, genetic engeneering, evolution of speices, the creation of the first living cell in the laboratory (no gods required), all these leaps in human knowledge should have profound implication to christianity.
Yet nothing like those things are "prophesied" (for obvious reasons) ;)
Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
Also there are some references in this silly article http://www.equip.org/perspectives/omniscience-does-god-know-all-things
holy jebus, i love it when they try to explain god's actions by comparing him to parents! Reminds me Bertrand Russell's "Why should I allow that same god to tell me how to raise my kids, who had to drown his own?"))
From a christ-tard apologetic site: God has emphasized repeatedly that He knows the future, perhaps never more emphatically than when Jesus Himself prophesied (see Matthew 24:1-51; Mark 8:31; John 2:19-22). The fact that God knows the future does not imply that humans somehow lose freedom of choice. Just because God knows that something will happen, does not mean that He causes it (see Bales, 1974, p. 49). God cannot be taught anything about the future (Acts 17:31; John 14:3). http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=12&arti...
I would argue that knowledge of the future does strip us of free will, and just because the 'tards say it doesn't doesn't remove the logic.