Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tim on April 6, 2011 at 10:09pm

They can be used for hunting.  I have killed boars/deer with an AR-15/M4; they put holes in animal flesh just as well as human flesh.  Whether or not your state allows it is a different story.  Besides, there is nothing in the Constitution about hunting or sport. 

 

They cannot be sold fully automatic unless they are classified as a Class III destructive device.  You have to get your tax stamp and go through an additional FEDERAL licensing process to get one.  Once you do, you can also function as an FFL dealer and have firearms shipped to you directly.  Whether or not guys mod their rifles illegally with illegal parts is something else dealing with enforcement of laws on the books.  No civilian models of any military/police firearms are sold with any functionality that extends beyond 1 round fired for 1 pull of the trigger.

 

Be careful with your level 1 combative training.  Of all combative oriented martial arts training I have received/experienced over the past decade, the military has been the worst . . . the MACP (for the most part = sport BJJ) is not what I teach to my guys. 

 

My favorite example of gun ownership gone wrong is the hotshot fatass from the gunshow who has a tricked out semi-auto M4 with a picatinny rail system, EOTECH Holographic sight, MAGPUL stock, bipod foregrip, and a SUREFIRE tac light attachment that sits over his mantle in his den/living room.  Yeah . . . don't ever fucking train with it and do some mag changes to actually utilize the weapon to its full potential - instead sit on your ass and lie to yourself that you will magically have all the correct fundamentals, your check-to-stock weld will never change, and you will actually be able to hit your target with that hunk of metal.  Say nothing of whether or not you have loaded magazines ready to go, batteries for your sight and flashlight, and did you think to get back-up iron sights?  Did you zero them in addition to your cool-guy EOTECH Holo sight?  Oh yeah . . . I forgot how much work that is.  It sure wasn't that hard in CoD MW2 . . .

 

Most people that I see at gun shows have no clue when it comes to being prepared for some emergency or how to deploy/manipulate/articulate their weapon systems effectively in a defensive or offensive situation.  It is a collecting hobby for them, nothing more.  You can give a sheep a gun, some Multicam, and a Steri-Pen, but it is still a sheep.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on April 7, 2011 at 12:28am

That second to last paragraph is exactly my point.  Not only have I trained and readied mine (it stays next to my bed, bolt locked to the rear, magazine ready to go) but I've also trained my wife on it as well to the point where she is nearly as proficient as I.  Its not about "looks" or any of that shit, but actual preparedness~ which is also why I train her on my other weapons and basic self defense (how to drop some aggressive asshole to the ground and stop his unwanted advances).  The area I live in is somewhat a warzone, so constant vigilance and emergency preparedness goes right in hand with my sweet ass rifle lol.

 

On MACP, I understand the limitations of my training completely, but it gives me a better understanding of fighting than it does teach me how to kick ass.

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Permalink Reply by Tim on April 7, 2011 at 4:02pm

On MACP, I understand the limitations of my training completely, but it gives me a better understanding of fighting than it does teach me how to kick ass.

 

I concur to an extent: hopefully the trainee gains some sort of understanding of the physicality involved in a drawn-out pugilistic contest and how to channel aggression when desired, or at least understand that is the idea.  I am still very frustrated that precious few units are training combatives in full kit with weapons.  Train as you fight seems to have gone out the door on that one . . .

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Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on April 7, 2011 at 4:09pm

yeah, my instructors made mention of that.  One of the most valuable things I learned was about getting to the ground to fight, and not trying to swing it out.  In all likely-hood, if I am involved in a physical altercation it will be in the US, with a civilian, when I am off duty~ people out here just want to punch their way out of things, so in that respect, the information was invaluable.  Also, the physical routine was amazing, unlike any PT I've done before, so that was a huge plus.

The general understanding of physics in combat was probably the best part, combined with actually getting to fight in a situation where I was under attack (even if not a serious threat to my life) and it gave me a lot of self confidence that I'm not completely in the dark in such a situation.  I'm in a reserve unit, and its sad to see how little training soldiers actually get before they can be shipped out to duty.. but I think that would be another topic, for another thread..

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Permalink Reply by TNT666 on April 6, 2011 at 10:10pm

Knowledge of maintenance and handling of firearms and other highly lethal weapons is primordial. It is quite possible that all these "self defenders" brandishing firearms at robbers do not have 'what it takes' to really kill another human being, and their weapon weaving makes them a target INSTEAD of killer. As you say, knowledge of WHAT to do is most important, which to me makes a darn good case for stronger regulations regarding ownership, to prevent incompetents from ownership.

 

On the other hand, a part of me thinks the ideal system of self defence, of self and nation, is the way France used to have it, where every person did military duty, received minimal weaponry training. In  a context where "every citizen should be ready to defend the country against enemies" I could see it also being recommended that every single human being have a firearm and have regular training/maintenance inspections, as we do with motor vehicles. Motor vehicles, because of their high lethality, require that all motorists must have standardised training. I could see this as a corollary of the right to bear arms...

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Permalink Reply by Tim on April 6, 2011 at 10:21pm

I concur with your statement regarding having "what it takes" to kill another human being.  Certain people do not have the ability.  Some think they do, and they don't.  Some have no idea what they are capable of until they are pressured into a situation.  Perhaps if we (as a people) spent more time getting to know ourselves on a regular basis instead of worshipping the fairy in the clouds more people would know for sure which they are.  There is nothing wrong with being either way, but to not know yourself in such a manner is a crime against you and everyone around you.

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Permalink Reply by TNT666 on April 6, 2011 at 10:30pm

Completely agree. And I'll even admit I'm partially guilty, as do we ever really know for sure? I've always had the intimate knowledge that I do have "what it takes". But it's not knowledge, it's an impression. I have had a couple of opportunities for self defence in my life, and I did react with I think the proper amount of returned violence, but I have not handled a gun since age 14, that's 30 years ago! But I've walked streets of South Africa and South America alone, have usually been successful at "avoidance" without compromising my various geographic explorations, and have successfully come out alive and unraped. I did pull a knife on one person, in Canada. They were sufficiently impressed by the tone of my voice that I had "what it takes" that they immediately ceased. But do I? (human perception is so very faulty)

 

My government offers a free gun handling course, I think I should take it.

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Permalink Reply by Tim on April 6, 2011 at 10:44pm

Indeed - it seems that the one person it is most difficult to be truly honest with is yourself.

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Permalink Reply by TNT666 on April 7, 2011 at 1:28am

Well like I stated in my very first reply, this is one of very few topics on which my mind has no clarity of what is the best governmental policy. My take is that it is too large a topic and needs to be divided up into a couple of sub-categories for issues of training/maintenance/licensing/calibre/distribution/inventory, etc. In Canadian politics, gun registration is a relatively hot topic. We register everything else that's lethal in life, it's the basis of our society. Now the oddest thing is that switchblades are illegal here, go figure...

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Permalink Reply by Susan Stanko on April 7, 2011 at 7:48am

My only problem with mandatory drivers training is that it forces those who don't want to drive to learn.

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Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on April 7, 2011 at 8:25am

This seems, ultimately, to be like so much of many other important questions with fuzzy answers~ the conclusion of which is "education is key," yet you cannot force someone to receive education... At least not efficiently.  I think making everyone who is purchasing a firearm (any) for the first time to receive training on the very basic functions of the firearm, the risks associated with using the firearm, and an extensive library of resources (maybe just a list of sources) where they can better educate themselves on using it.  After that, responsibility falls on the individual, but at least the idea has been implanted in their minds.  A comprehensive, mandatory training would be impractical~ also, by separating the legal owners from the illegal owners also helps (in general) to give those who are educated even more of an advantage in such a situation..

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Permalink Reply by Will Faithless Sophia on April 7, 2011 at 1:29pm

"...yet you cannot force someone to receive education... At least not efficiently."

 

Tell that to your local school board :P

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