The World’s Largest Coalition of Nontheists and Nontheist Communities!
Guns/Second Amendment
I know we're all different thinkers, but I'm just curious if there is a consensus view among atheists regarding firearms?
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Aaron S. (USA) on -
Well, you can say that - but if it's impossible to get rid of guns, then how did Britain do it?
I just want some real data here, not conjecture and armchair theorizing. Fact: Britain has strong, consistent gun laws and has one of the lowest gun crime rates in the world as a result (and this despite having a mostly urban population). If you can't get rid of guns, then why doesn't Britain have any? If gun control laws can't stop people from shooting each other, then why doesn't Britain have more gun crime? Where's the mass influx of South American guns into Britain?
I'm just trying to be clear here - I'm not suggesting something that's been tried and failed, or that has never been tried at all. It has been tried, and it worked. That's the hard evidence I have before me, and rhetoric isn't going to change my mind. Do you have any data at all to back up what you're saying?
You're right, it's not legal to search someone's house without a warrant, but so what? As soon as there's evidence of a gun, it gets taken away. Eventually, all of them are (or rather, the vast majority).
As for the culture, well, cultures change. I don't see what's especially worth saying about that. -
-
Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on -
Well, culture is a part. here are some things that i can think of off of the top of my head.
we share an open border with mexico. Britain is an island 3000 miles away and slightly larger than half of california.
we have a provision in our constitution that prevents firearms from being banned, only somewhat regulated.
we as a nation are one of the largest arms manufactures in the world.
we have a national history that is completely interwoven with the history of firearms.
we have a centuries long history of firearm use for hunting, defense, and entertainment.
we have the highest income disparity of all industrialized nations, providing a wealth of violent incentive to the millions of the impoverished.
this nation was founded on firearms. from the revolutionary war to settling the west, from every presidential assassination to film history and pop culture today, firearms are incredibly pervasive.
~Great Britain, on the other-hand, doesn't have a history that reflects our own. being so small and explored a millennia ago, they didn't evolve the "frontier" mentality. arms were more expensive, typically reserved for gentry (think fox hunts) as opposed to being mass produced and carried by many (think westerns) the modern firearm was developed and perfected in the united states. most of England's conflicts (fought on english soil) were before the advent of the firearm, if not all of them. the same cannot be said of the americas. It's been entrenched in the american mindset that owning a firearm is a right; but thats because they are the tool that was used to create this nation to begin with. it was men women and children picking up (fire)arms to fight the british.
~looking at it from that perspective, it isn't as hard to see the cultural differences. I'm not trying to say one is right and one is wrong, but seeing how Great Britain has evolved historically, and the size in comparison to the U.S., its not beyond imagination that firearms have been easier to regulate and control over there than here. they also haven't had the same history and/or use for them. -
-
Permalink Reply by Louis on -
You also have to consider countries that have mandatory gun ownership like Switzerland. You don't have a choice. Every house must have a military issue assault rifle in the home. I'm not talking hand guns, or shotguns, or hunting rifles. I mean a gun that they send people to war with.
Every house must have one. In case the Germans invade or something.
And yet the Swiss violent crime rate is about half as high as in the UK.
There are the French with a fairly high rate of guns per capita with a slightly higher violent crime rate than the UK.
There are a lot of numbers that go back and forth and sum up the essential truth that gun ownership does not correlate with violent crime. -
-
Permalink Reply by TK on -
Violent crime isn't as bad? I doubt it.
The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country...
-
Permalink Reply by Louis on
-
I dunno. The Daily Mail isn't exactly renowned for its even handed reporting.
The first thing that jumps out at me is UK #1 in violent crime while simultaneously 4th in burglarly, 5th in robbery, and 13th in murder. Where are the rest of these violent crimes coming from?
The UK is also 8th in assaults and 13th in rape. Where are the rest of these violent crimes coming from?
-
Permalink Reply by TK on
-
Fair enough, I wasn't sure about the source on that one. I still don't buy the argument that if you remove guns, violent crime goes down.
-
-
Permalink Reply by Louis on
-
You're absolutely right on that. There isn't even a correlation between gun ownership and crime.
No matter how intuitively it may favor one side or the other, the evidence just doesn't play out that way.
-
-
Permalink Reply by Sam Jones on -
"Guns are the dumb persons answer to violence. " This is a terrible thing to say. if "Rational, intelligent people understand that violence begets violence." is really true, then, consider my gun protection for the idiots who don't think things through rationally. "Thinking, logic, ethics, empathy, and reason are the only ways to stop the cycle of violence.
" I beg to differ... My shotgun stops a violent criminal pretty quick, hell it even works well to prevent crimes. If somoeone bangs on my door at 3am unexpectedly and befor eI open teh door they hear that unmistakenable "chik chi" that my pump action makes when i rack a round into the chamber, chances are when i open the door to ask who it is, they are already gone.
-
Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on
-
here Here!
I have the same logic in mind. out here, it isn't hard to get robbed. I'm the only "white" person within 5 blocks, and we have shootings on the corner. if they know that I'm carrying, which I make apparent when I go out, no one fucks with me. Its not worth the trouble. doesn't matter if I have a mag of .40 hollow points, they know not to mess with me and to keep on walking. I know for a fact its saved my ass once, and so its paid for itself.
-
Permalink Reply by Susan Stanko on -
I had a patron think I carried a knife simply by the way I handled myself against ornery patrons.
-
Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on
-
"The best Defense is a good Offense"
-
Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on
-
Guns for all who want them.
They are a tool, like anything else. regulation doesn't change the use of the tool, education does.
Something like over 90% of gun crimes are committed with illegal weapons or by people who can't carry legally.
Enough said in my opinion.
Support Nexus
Click to Buy Amazon items and help A|N
Advertisements
Latest Activity
© 2013 Atheist Nexus. All rights reserved. Admin: Brother Richard.
