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A cousin-in-law on Facebook (I know, I know) put up  something that a friend of hers said about the tragedy happening because everyone does not put wonderful, loving 'god' first in their lives, blah, blah, blah.  I, of course, couldn't keep my mouth shut and said it had nothing to do with religion, moral people are moral people, and this guy was obviously insane.  Then the cousin-in-law said she believes 'god' has something to do with EVERYTHING. 

WHAT THE FUCK do you say to that?  REALLY?  Her 'god' had something to do with that?  And WHY would you worship something that had the power, but didn't do anything to save those babies?????

I know, we talk about this all the time.  I really just want to be a hermit.  I hate dumb people, and there are WAY too many of them.

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Wow ... Un-Be-Lieveable.  It seems there are people out there willing to use anything except LOGIC to understand what has happened here.

Weird, all right, Patrick ... and frightening.

I should give full disclosure, I am a male elementary school teacher, in a building where, out of 4 teachers per grade pre-k through 5th grade, I am the only male classroom teacher, and there are only 2 other male teachers (music and computer)...and I have no idea what the author of that piece is talking about as far as a "feminized setting", nor do I know a single teacher that would allow or encourage their 12 year old students to "converge" on a guy with an assault rifle.

Not god, but the belief (true or not), some people have of god often has something to do with their interpretation of EVERYTHING. Can we get any more vague than that?

I understand the argument you're making though, trying to shake the faith of the faithful. Unfortunately, I think we (you and I) speak a different language than they. When awful things happen in this world the religious process it through the filter they've been trained to use. Cause and effect are linked to any number of supernatural agents; god, angels, the devil...

It has been some time since I began questioning that worldview. As the years have gone by its stain has slowly faded from my mind. I don't know if it will ever go away entirely but I'm glad it isn't anywhere near dominant. When bad things happen in the world I look first for natural, then manmade causes.

I think it is a mistake to underestimate the hold the religious filter puts on the mind of a believer. Many of our arguments aren't even recognizable to them. Those that are will instinctively be rejected, as they must, for the filter to function correctly. I'm impatient to dissolve the filter. I know it will not disappear in my life so my interest can be only so those who follow will not continue to be led astray by illusions and hucksters.

As I see it, we have only two possible avenues. First, we must continue to demonstrate laws that govern natural phenomena and the role they play in each of our lives. Secondly, we must constantly and consistently redirect the discussion back towards epistemology. It teaches critical thinking and more correctly categorizes the foundation of our beliefs in terms of what can and can't be supported by evidence or logic. Only then can we defend what we've made of ourselves.

The friend and cousin-in-law are probably surrounded by many others who think the same way. Frustration on your part will only create separation. If you truly want to make change, you must engage in a pleasant fashion. Be patient in the knowledge that in time these kind of beliefs will be abandoned. I suppose I'd ask questions such as "does god control every atom at all times or does he just intervene when he wants?" and as a follow up "how do you know that?" They say the devil is in the details but I think that's just an excuse to allow them to believe anything they want.

What really gets under my skin is when people say its because "god" isn't allowed in public schools! Really?! 26 people died needlessly because your silly deity was throwing a hissy fit?!

Seems like god has a lack or power, because individual schools get to decide if they want to let him in. 

Agreed Damien - their god has no power.

Great discussion booklover!!

Yes, booklover the news has been so horrible lately. My mom said she couldn't sleep and was so upset over those children losing their lives. It's been so horrible and sad.

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