A cousin-in-law on Facebook (I know, I know) put up  something that a friend of hers said about the tragedy happening because everyone does not put wonderful, loving 'god' first in their lives, blah, blah, blah.  I, of course, couldn't keep my mouth shut and said it had nothing to do with religion, moral people are moral people, and this guy was obviously insane.  Then the cousin-in-law said she believes 'god' has something to do with EVERYTHING. 

WHAT THE FUCK do you say to that?  REALLY?  Her 'god' had something to do with that?  And WHY would you worship something that had the power, but didn't do anything to save those babies?????

I know, we talk about this all the time.  I really just want to be a hermit.  I hate dumb people, and there are WAY too many of them.

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It is also, sadly, entirely too predictable.

What brings the criticism of God not protecting those children because God is not venerated within the school, is the fact that previous massacres occurred in religious schools and places of worship.

That fact, fucks up their stupidity!

Chris Rodda had a pretty good column about this. She included a list of atrocities having a religious connection.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-rodda/no-mr-huckabee-its-not-be...

 

THAT is a premium piece of data, Greg!  Thank you for posting it!

And to repeat a point which has been made elsewhere, why is it that god has abandoned those kids who were molested (and very likely CONTINUE TO BE MOLESTED) by priests in catholic schools and churches?!?

Obviously the poor people killed in this tragedy did not deserve to die,but the people of the USA deserve to have these tragedies visited upon themselves whilst a vast majority of its inhabitants believe in the right to bear arms.The opinions of most Americans mean these killings will continue,and American individuals are playing a sort of Russian roulette that it will not happen to them as individuals.

The USA is the only advanced country in the world to allow just about anyone to buy whole armouries of weapons,and is also the only advanced country in the world which is deeply religious.I am not sure if these two facts are connected or not.

Connected to a long tradition of being a "stiff-necked people", maybe.  Perhaps god would like to strike them down and make me into a great nation instead?

(That's Exodus 32:9-10 for those of you following along in your Bibles.)

They are indeed connected.  Armories give the possibility of mass homicide.

Religion creates raving loons.

Then you have a nation of raving loons with armories.

Definitely a recipe for disaster.

Aye M8!  :@  

To put a different perspective on the shootings in the USA, it is really only equivalent to 4 normal days in the USA, as in a report by the BBC in 2011, 5 children are killed every day in the US, mostly by parents and close relatives. 

Here's an excerpt:"

Over the past 10 years, more than 20,000 American children are believed to have been killed in their own homes by family members. That is nearly four times the number of US soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The child maltreatment death rate in the US is triple Canada's and 11 times that of Italy. Millions of children are reported as abused and neglected every year. Why is that?"

From: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15193530

Smells badly like a very sick society to any rationalist!

Aye M8z!    :@ 

Wow ... Un-Be-Lieveable.  It seems there are people out there willing to use anything except LOGIC to understand what has happened here.

Weird, all right, Patrick ... and frightening.

I should give full disclosure, I am a male elementary school teacher, in a building where, out of 4 teachers per grade pre-k through 5th grade, I am the only male classroom teacher, and there are only 2 other male teachers (music and computer)...and I have no idea what the author of that piece is talking about as far as a "feminized setting", nor do I know a single teacher that would allow or encourage their 12 year old students to "converge" on a guy with an assault rifle.

Not god, but the belief (true or not), some people have of god often has something to do with their interpretation of EVERYTHING. Can we get any more vague than that?

I understand the argument you're making though, trying to shake the faith of the faithful. Unfortunately, I think we (you and I) speak a different language than they. When awful things happen in this world the religious process it through the filter they've been trained to use. Cause and effect are linked to any number of supernatural agents; god, angels, the devil...

It has been some time since I began questioning that worldview. As the years have gone by its stain has slowly faded from my mind. I don't know if it will ever go away entirely but I'm glad it isn't anywhere near dominant. When bad things happen in the world I look first for natural, then manmade causes.

I think it is a mistake to underestimate the hold the religious filter puts on the mind of a believer. Many of our arguments aren't even recognizable to them. Those that are will instinctively be rejected, as they must, for the filter to function correctly. I'm impatient to dissolve the filter. I know it will not disappear in my life so my interest can be only so those who follow will not continue to be led astray by illusions and hucksters.

As I see it, we have only two possible avenues. First, we must continue to demonstrate laws that govern natural phenomena and the role they play in each of our lives. Secondly, we must constantly and consistently redirect the discussion back towards epistemology. It teaches critical thinking and more correctly categorizes the foundation of our beliefs in terms of what can and can't be supported by evidence or logic. Only then can we defend what we've made of ourselves.

The friend and cousin-in-law are probably surrounded by many others who think the same way. Frustration on your part will only create separation. If you truly want to make change, you must engage in a pleasant fashion. Be patient in the knowledge that in time these kind of beliefs will be abandoned. I suppose I'd ask questions such as "does god control every atom at all times or does he just intervene when he wants?" and as a follow up "how do you know that?" They say the devil is in the details but I think that's just an excuse to allow them to believe anything they want.

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