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Gay AND atheist?!

"Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

This passage from the bible sounds pretty clear to me, though some argue it's true meaning.

How can one be gay and Christian and still maintain a healthy and guilt free sex life?

There are not as many mentions, condemnation or otherwise, in the bible as many evangelicals would like us to believe, but it's still pretty clear to me that the bible condems it. I personaly could not care less what the bible says on anything, but this seems to be a major deal with most people who at least, give some credence to bible morality.

Since I am using my real name, plus my picture, it may be unwise for me to show a full deck with regard to my sexual orientation, so lets just say I am on the side of the gay folks :)

I am guessing there are a number of gay atheist members here who may be less bashful than I to comment, but I am intersted in knowing if most gay people are, by necessity, atheist, and how they struggled in life having both socially unacceptable stigmas.

Does anyone want to share their thoughts?

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Permalink Reply by Lyra Silvertongue on January 15, 2011 at 5:04pm

Obviously most gay people aren't atheist but I would certainly hope more of us would lean that way. I do think it made it easier for me to step away from my church at a young age, and possibly helped indirectly to my identification as atheist.

"How can one be gay and Christian and still maintain a healthy and guilt free sex life?"

I ask, how can one be straight and Christian and still maintain a healthy, guilt-free sex life? May be possible, but very hard from what I can see. At least for, as you point out, people who take the bible really seriously.

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Permalink Reply by Jim DePaulo on January 15, 2011 at 6:02pm

I'm amazed that any gay individual could accept any major religion. Why would one join a religion in which they are considered a pariah, an abomination and subject to constant demonizing by the pious.

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Permalink Reply by Jim on January 15, 2011 at 6:16pm

Only the OT and Paul mention homosexuality as an abomination. Paul contradicts the teachings of Jesus in so many ways, there could be a thread on that subject alone.

Jesus in the NT preached forgiveness and love. Though I do not subscribe to the deity, the message is relevant. In the NT, Jesus heals a Roman Centurion's slave. (His "Pais" in the Septuigent) A Pais was a male slave who among his duties was sexual pleasure. Jesus did not condemn the Centurion for his relationship. He PRAISED it.

Perhaps some homosexuals (don't know for sure but could ask) see the teachings of Jesus and not Paul or Leviticus.

Jesus (according to the fable) surrounded himself with the filth of society. Tax collectors, a supposed whore, etc. Dredges. Beatitudes says, "Blessed are the persecuted" Did that include everyone? Who knows, but maybe that's what they read into it.

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Permalink Reply by Stanley Post on January 15, 2011 at 6:22pm

Jim I think it gets to the same reason anyone wants too; fear of death.

Gay folks, like the catholics, like the mormons, cherry pick the bible for that which they justify to be correct, and that which they "throw out" as metyphor or poetic writting.

Gays look to the theological modern interpratations of scripture relating to homosexuality as rather benign, meaning something different, translation, etc. and find their salvation on that!

To me, if one can sellect what they choose from what is supposed to be the word of god, than why not throw it all out?

It's my opinion that fear of death is the basis of christianity, and is the reason it exists today.

Imagin what would happen if you removed "eternal life in heaven" from christianity!

I think membership would drop dramaticly ;)

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Permalink Reply by Jim on January 15, 2011 at 6:30pm

Like I said, I don't know for sure, but could find out as I have a christian friend who is gay. These discussions don't ever come up, so it's never been a question.

Gay folks, like the catholics, like the mormons, cherry pick the bible for that which they justify to be correct, and that which they "throw out" as metyphor or poetic writting.

Gays look to the theological modern interpratations of scripture relating to homosexuality as rather benign, meaning something different, translation, etc. and find their salvation on that!

I can't end my blockquote and I think I just screwed up my whole post...

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Permalink Reply by Jim on January 15, 2011 at 6:32pm

Let me try this again. (Someone tell me how to end a blockquote)

I was getting at that same point. (the cherry picking) By disregarding the OT (because it no longer applies--which we know is Bullocks) and tossing Paul in the garbage (because that's wherre his epistles belong) we can pick what Jesus said (according to the tale)

However, I am in agreement that in the end it comes down to the afterlife for all christians.

Me? I choose to be good for goodness' sake, not because I'm being watched.

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Permalink Reply by Stanley Post on January 15, 2011 at 6:53pm

LOL!! I dont know how either! I have screwed up so many posts its not funny!

Anyway, there is something else, gay people did not CHOOSE their gay life style. Science has finally caught up with what gay people have been saying forever; it is NOT a choice. Gay folks do not wake up one day and decide; hey, I think I will be gay from now on, of course, I will be dissowned by my family and friends, and likely get fired from my job, but what the hey, sounds like fun!!

We now know that homsexuality has it's beginnings very early in life, perhaps the first 2 years, and that it is at least partly genetic, though there is no "gay" gene, just as there is no "straight" gene, it is a complex mixture of genetics and invironment which the individual has absolutly no control over.

The point is, if god made all of us, then god made gays too, and it must be part of his "divine plan"!

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Permalink Reply by Jim on January 15, 2011 at 7:01pm

I've got theory on this. Nothing scientific, but perhaps we are all asexual. Not to get too much into detail, but if one were "receiving" with their eyes closed, there would be no difference between a woman and a clean shaven man.
Truth be told, the guy is probably better at it.
Sure, it's not the most appealing visual for most, but "scientifically", it's the nerve receptors, not what's/who's doing it. I think the stigma attached to gay relationships blinds most to this fact and makes them feel uncomfortable.

Is masturbation gay? How about if the guy's name is "Terry"?

BTW...homosexual activity is found elsewhere in the animal kingdom as well. Humans do not have the exclusive on this.

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Permalink Reply by dr kellie on January 20, 2011 at 11:44am

I am certainly not asexual. Being gay is not about sex at all. It is about attraction. I have sex with men if I feel like it, but I will never look at a man and get giddy and think, "I wonder what his hair smells like."

If yall want to know more about how gay xians deal, check out "Holy Homosexuals" by Michael Piazza. You may or may not throw up.

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Permalink Reply by Stanley Post on January 20, 2011 at 3:37pm

"Is masturbation gay?"

No, but your not allowed to do that either!

Dont forget the Monty Python song; "every sperm is sacred" ;)

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Permalink Reply by Stanley Post on January 15, 2011 at 6:04pm

"I ask, how can one be straight and Christian and still maintain a healthy, guilt-free sex life? May be possible, but very hard from what I can see. At least for, as you point out, people who take the bible really seriously."

By living in a way that they believe adhears to a standard of morality, ie; getting married, having children, going to church, belief and adhearance to the teachings of jesus, etc. Being comfortable and satisfied that they are good christians, and have sex for reproduction only (no nasty stuff alowed!), and teach their children the same, happy that they are "normal" gods children.

Yeah, I know, that's a load of shit, but I had you going there for a minute, didnt I? ;)

Human sexuality is extremly complex. And I understand what you mean, christianity has brainwashed humanity for hundreds of years to feel guilt about it.

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Permalink Reply by Lyra Silvertongue on January 15, 2011 at 8:03pm

You had me rolling my eyes, for sure! Yes, I think anyone raised in this culture has to shake off some narrow ideas about what forms of sexuality are appropriate, and it's usually harder for gays and women.