Fundamental Atheism

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Permalink Reply by Tex on May 30, 2009 at 12:16am

I would think that atheism is fundamental by it's very nature. Unlike Christians, whose "fundamentalism" is merely determined by whether or not the bible is to be interpreted literally and followed as an instruction manual, atheists tend to hold their beliefs as not really able to be loosely interpreted. Instead, our "belief system" is based on scientific facts and theories, instead of fairy tales and allegory that requires deciphering.

Maybe I'm over simplifying though.

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Permalink Reply by Tarquin St John Sh'gn'sty on May 30, 2009 at 7:44pm

Atheism may be positive belief for some Viz " A belief there is no god"

However, the word "atheism" means "the lack of belief in god(s)", period. NOTHING else is implied or may be inferred .

That the atheist position is based on science and reason is a common conceit amongst many atheists. Of course it's probably true for some ,even many,but I've never seen evidence to support that claim as a general principle.

Most of us form our deepest beliefs (or lack of them )on the basis of emotions rising directly from experience. Science,reason and logic seem to play little part.

My reason for my position include:

My perception is that as a species human beings are not consistently reasonable or rational,even the most brilliant.

My observation is that most people on forums as well as in real life are unable to identify the more common logical fallacies.

I guess my view may be seen as a little cynical. I don't claim be necessarily right.I've,merely expressed an opinion of how things seem to me.

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Permalink Reply by felch grogan on May 30, 2009 at 12:17am

Yes - it can make one feel ashamed can't it ? Loudmouth uber-atheists. I explain it using mathematical terms - some people go from 1 to -1 in their athesim, instead of from 1 to 0. They simply become a mirror of their hatred.

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Permalink Reply by Johnsky on May 30, 2009 at 12:19am

So long as our rants remain amongst ourselves, they do no harm.

But when dealing with the religious, and those on the fence, we should always show respect for their beliefs, for what respect would we deserve if we show them none?


Sure, we know they're being lied to, brainwashed, mis-led, and otherwise used for profit and power... but they don't.
They completely believe that their religion is guiding them to some form of eternal happiness. (Which their religion will never have to pay up on, prove, etc)

... if it's happiness they want, and not truth : sometimes the lie of religion is the best thing for them.


Lies are warm blankets. You don't have to face reality, you just pull the blanket higher and curl up.
If they don't come seeking the truth, it's probably because they're more comfortable not knowing the truth.

If they come looking for reality, then they're already with us, whether we pull them the rest of the way or not.
But it's better if we're here to catch them.

Reality can be a harsh and rude awakening.

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Permalink Reply by Phillip Law on May 30, 2009 at 12:29am

I think there's no such thing as a fundamental atheist, there is however a militant atheist. To be fundamental requires some sort of reference to a foundation (in the case of fundamental christians this is the bible) and that the belief must be 'fundamental' which means to be absolute and immune to change. But since atheism does not claim the non-existence of gods (only that he is very very very highly improbable), it can't be 'fundamental' in that sense. Further, the fact that atheists can change their beliefs in light of new evidence means that they are more flexible in belief, fundamental christians on the other hand don't change in light of new evidence.

That's my take on it.
I think people who say that are confusing militant with fundamental.

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Permalink Reply by felch grogan on May 30, 2009 at 1:20am

Most dictionaries have this as one of the definitions -

Strict adherence to any set of basic ideas or principles.

As much as you like to think there aren't any of us like that, there are. At least one cretin here (long gone) has maintained, inflexibly and dogmatically, that in order to prove you are a genuine hard atheist you must destroy bibles.

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Permalink Reply by Chrys Stevenson on May 30, 2009 at 9:55pm

I guess I'd better expel myself then. I just paid $350 to have one restored!

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Permalink Reply by felch grogan on May 30, 2009 at 10:15pm

Or change you're name to Billy Graham.

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Permalink Reply by Buffy on May 30, 2009 at 1:32am

Fundamentalist Christianity:
The first formulation of American fundamentalist beliefs can be traced to the Niagara Bible Conference (1878–1897) and, in 1910, to the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church which distilled these into what became known as the "five fundamentals":

* Inerrancy of the Scriptures
* The virgin birth and the deity of Jesus (Isaiah 7:14)
* The doctrine of substitutionary atonement by God's grace and through human faith (Hebrews 9)
* The bodily resurrection of Jesus (Matthew 28)
* The authenticity of Christ's miracles (or, alternatively, his pre-millennial second coming)




Atheists have no scriptures, no gods and no dogma (though some atheists may at times be dogmatic). How can we be fundamentalists? There are plenty of militant atheists out there, even obnoxious ones, but no fundamentalist atheists.

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Permalink Reply by felch grogan on May 30, 2009 at 2:14am

Splitting semantic hairs. Fundamental is also a synonym for radical -

of or going to the root or origin; fundamental

Pretty much all of us understand MayoKitty's usage.

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Ned Kelly on May 30, 2009 at 6:24am

A red-faced, screaming fundamentalist Christian, and a red-faced, screaming strong atheist might have the same kind of personality disorder, but I don't think it is useful to view them as similar in any other way. I can imagine reasons why a "moderate" Christian who rejects both fundamentalism and atheism would like to, however, because he or she can avoid having to prove that atheism is illogical, only point a fat finger at the two emotionally disturbed persons making noise in the corner, and declare: see, I'm not like those nuts. Then, they smile at you and invite you to church where the "pro-life" pastor's sermon will be followed by punch and cookies in the garden.

With all due respect, Mayokitty, I'm just not going to play into that false comparison game.

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Permalink Reply by Angie Jackson on May 30, 2009 at 7:18am

Well a couple things - First, I don't think Atheism is fundamentalist. I say this as someone raised in a fundamentalist Christian cult/sect and as someone who studies Wahabi Islam. Someone said fundamental means the same as radical and even if they're used the same in the religious context, they don't apply to atheism. We don't have ANYTHING in common besides lack of god belief. That's all you need to be a "true atheist". You can be a racist, homophobic, non-science believing, conspiracy theorist, "I believe in ghosts and UFOs" atheist. Sure it's not as common, but it can happen. Atheist does not equal rational.

Second, what will work? Well since atheists deconverted ME, here's what did the trick:

• humor - all those years of George Carlin and Eddie Izzard sneaking under my guard
• different questions - I knew the pat responses for the problem of evil, etc. but I really hated debate back then. The YouTube video "Ten Questions Every Intelligent Christian Must Ask" and the materials on the website Why Won't God Heal Amputees? were instrumental
• being good friends and neighbors - a couple months before making the switch myself, I had neighbors who were atheist professors. We did playdates with our kids together, and they were very nice kind people, not at all the image of atheist I had in my fundy Christian head

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