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Permalink Reply by Lindsay Holloway on February 12, 2011 at 5:38am

I'm male by the way!

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Permalink Reply by El Solo Lobo on February 12, 2011 at 6:11am

Yes.

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Permalink Reply by SecularCortex13.x on February 12, 2011 at 6:35am

Hrrrmmm... you gotta have tolerance of cultures in America, cultures have the Constitution on their sides.

Granted if one becomes too fundie, well, wants your tax money and your kids... that's where the shyte goes pair-shaped. ?

 

Some women perhaps were abused before by xtian/druggie or über-corporate foreign pimps and just want a way out sometimes. ? They don't eat pork nor shrimp; no beer, wine nor nada. It's a life change from what I gather. The outfits... well, not so happy.

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Permalink Reply by TK on February 12, 2011 at 2:47pm

Am I supposed to be culturally sensitive for the pimps involved in sex trafficking?  What a lousy argument from your friends.  Unfortunately, at the same time freedom must be constantly struggled for, and if a population doesn't want that freedom and won't take the steps and risks associated with demanding that freedom, I don't think it's our place to force it on them either.  I think the best thing to do is educate people.  Show them what is possible, then let them make their own choices from there.

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Permalink Reply by Lindsay Holloway on February 14, 2011 at 1:17pm

I don't know how you can say that the women of Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, The Yemen, The UAE etc. etc. don't want that freedom. We're talking about fundamental human rights, freedom of thought, free speech and the right to disagree without fear of being arrested. I'm not talking about 'forcing freedom' on a population. Putting pressure on oppressive govts to stop them treating their populations like property would be a good start.

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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Nicole on February 12, 2011 at 8:38pm

Cultural sensitivity/relativism is an annoying phrase. But I'm going to say that everyone has causes that matter to them more than others. We cannot care about every issue of wrongdoing or we'll be overwhelmed. So some of your friends may have prioritized other issues.

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Permalink Reply by Lindsay Holloway on February 14, 2011 at 1:26pm

I agree that we cannot care about every issue out there and you do need to sacrifice some for others but the blatant oppression and mistreatment of women in Islam should be a top concern for women in my opinion. Even some of my feminist friends couldn't care less which staggers me. The circumstances many women in Islamic cultures find themselves in, we in the west got rid of centuries ago. I wish more people realised this and gave their support to women such as Sakineh Mohammedi Ashtiani.

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Permalink Reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on April 9, 2011 at 9:37am

Since we all have limited emotional energy and other resources, each of us must prioritize. That doesn't mean we stop caring about blatant oppression of women in other countries. However, I find it more helpful in my own life to pay attention to oppression of women here and now, when it's in my face directly affecting me. It's so easy to identify oppression far away, and take a rescuer role, when the victims have thoroughly internalized most of their oppression and resent your intrusion. It takes more courage to scrutinize the concrete ways I have internalized the ongoing oppression of women and of myself as a woman. It's the take a mote out of the eye of another and not seeing the beam in your own eye thing.

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Permalink Reply by leveni on February 13, 2011 at 8:56pm

 

Hey Lindsay, how are things.

 

Here are some links to Australian Government Statistic on Domestic violence. 

http://www.austdvclearinghouse.unsw.edu.au/PDF%20files/Statistics_f...

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/intguide/sp/Dom_violence.htm

http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime/domestic%20violenc...

I put these links here to show you how we men in the West treat our loved ones.

 

And just wondering if you could give me some more information about the point you are trying to make about Islamic societies. Also, can I ask which Islamic countries you have lived in and which languages you understand that are used in Islamic countries.

 

thanks

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Permalink Reply by Lindsay Holloway on February 14, 2011 at 2:07pm

Thanks for the condascending tone.

 

So by your logic I can't have an opinion on women in Islamic cultures unless I've lived in an Islamic country? Would I have had to have lived as a Jew during WW2 to know that genocide is bad? Would I have to go to prison to understand that it's somewhere I don't want to be? Nice logic!

 

I didn't say Islamic 'country' or 'society'. How about the women living by Islamic cultural rules in my own country? Let's start there. Between 500 - 2000 BRITISH girls are forced to endure circumcision during the summer holidays every year. Most are flown out to their or their parents' country of origin by relatives with the promise of a holiday, only to be held down and have their clitoris cut off. Many are forced to have it done in my own country (UK) in 2011 and there have been no convictions to my knowledge. The oppression of women in Islam is blatant and despicable. Have a look at a woman wearing a burkha and tell me that religion isn't man-made (that is, made by people with penises).

 

I've read the Qu'ran and the Hadith and passages giving men divine permission to treat women like property can be found ad nauseum. Same in the Torah and the Bible.

 

I do not deny that many thousands of women in our own countries find themselves in hideous circumstances but the difference between Oz and, say, Afghanistan is that domestic violence is ILLEGAL and men found guilty are rightly punished. Heard of the law passed by Hamid Karzai's govt two years ago allowing a man to RAPE his wife with impunity if she refuses him sex?

 

Islam has not undergone a reformation or been brought kicking and screaming into modernity with an enlightenment the same way as other religions have. For example, Spain translates more books into Spanish every year than the entire Muslim world has EVER translated into their own languages. This is a serious problem.

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Permalink Reply by Prog Rock Girl on April 5, 2011 at 11:10am

Right Leveni, because if someone hasn't lived in an Islamic country, they couldn't know ANYTHING about Islam. Just like a person can't know that they don't like Slayer unless they follow them around on tour for a summer. Meanwhile, there are quite a few prominent ex-Muslims who have lived in multiple Muslim countries, but people find ways to dismiss what they are saying too. What it boils down to is that if you don't like what someone is saying, go after their credibility instead of their arguments.

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Permalink Reply by leveni on April 5, 2011 at 12:25pm

Hi Rock girl, how are thing?

 

Have you ever lived in a Muslim country?

 

There is a difference between talking to people who live in the country they were born in and have never left and they love and people who have left their country of birth because it doesn't offer them what they want out of life.

 

It's like, some people like slayer and some people hate slayer, and some people have never heard of slayer, and others have heard of slayer but don't care about slayer. If you talk to lots of different people you get lots of different opinions.

 

My opinion is: regardless of whether religion exists or not, men will still continue to treat women the way they do. There will always be domestic violence against women. It has nothing to do with religion. In all Muslim countries there are Muslim men that treat their wives and daughters with the utmost respect and others who don't. Just like western countries.

 

I look at the problem of misogyny as a psychological problem not a religious one.

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