http://thehumanist.com/news/international/france-upholds-ban-on-burqas - includes a poll where we may vote on whether we're for or against

... and my blog about it

Tags: burqa, france

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I can't get the voting site to work for me, but read your blog. I fully agree with you, Hiram.

Not only does the burqa tend to make a non-human out of the woman wearing it, making her unseen and more like property than a person, it also hides any person who might be wearing one. A terrorist might easily hide under loose fitting clothes and a burqa. If governments say "yes" to the burqa we are a step closer to Shiria law than before, and in many cases it has been argued that women should wear this style of dress for a drivers' license. Even though we are not supposed to use a license of this type for identity purposes, quite often we do. With a burqa image on the drivers' license it would be impossible to tell with the eyes just who the license belonged to even if you knew the person. We need the picture there.

People of any culture need to remember that you cannot come to other countries and argue for them to change their laws because of your religion. It doesn't work that way.

That last line is a good point. We need to remember it,

"...you cannot come to other countries and argue for them to change their laws because of your religion." In an ideal moral world, it indeed shouldn't work that way. In the real world, evangelist Scott Lively stands accused of crimes against humanity for inciting anti-gay hatred in Uganda, leading to passage of their alarming Anti-Homosexuality Bill whose penalties include life in prison. (The earlier version included the death penalty, earning the name "'Kill the Gays' Bill".)

(Worth a look: "Pride and Prejudice: Life Under Uganda's 'Kill the Gays' Bill")

My moral quandary about that it, lies in human rights issues.  I guess you can't go to, Iran, say, and be a woman and walk around in a miniskirt and expect to be treated in any kind of respectful or humane manner.  Or go to Uganda and fly a rainbow flag.  Can you go to a country and tell them, they can't "ethnic cleanse"?

I'm not disagreeing at all.  It's something I don't know what to think about.

A burqa erases a woman.  She ceases to have a face, a personality or any meaningful public identity.  She becomes reduced to a presence in a cloth bag.  This, indeed, may be the intention of those who superimpose the requirement of a burqa on women in the first place.  A burqa is, above and beyond any other quality, Dehumanizing ... which is why it should in no ways be tolerated in modern society.

And while I think about the schmucks who would put women in those dumb-ass cloth sacks:

:) In my book, I argue that Epicurus taught people to be apolitical and this might be seen as a sign of weakness, but his doctrine was atomist and scientific and he didn't need intimidation or violence to be proven right, unlike Islamists and the Christians of the days of the Crusades, and the church when it cooked alive Giordano Bruno, etc. His teachings on natural selection and naturalist cosmology and atomism were, in the end, proven right.

No amount of intimidation or screaming or violence erases scientific data and evidence available to the senses. Ideologists who endorse violence are, somewhere in their beings, deeply aware of the lack of foundation that their beliefs have.

In the mob, I wouldn't expect much such awareness.  The mob has been indoctrinated and trained in what to think, and that's the way the leaders want it.  THEY may have some awareness regarding the vulnerability of their belief system to reality, and very likely they fight against the incursions of reality at every Friday prayer.

It's as I've said many times around here: believing something is easy.  Learning and knowing something is far harder ... which is why so many people and most if not all true believers cannot be bothered.

Loren I like those signs very much!

Ditto

I find it difficult to know where to draw the line here. If an old-time nun with full habit is out in society, is that similar to a burka? Fully desexualized and identity hidden? I know there arent many, maybe any, such nuns now.

How do we know where to draw a line?

I consider islam repugnant to an extreme, with christianity and judaism nit too far behind. But if I can tell them not to wear a burka, what restrictions do they get to put on me?

im a lot more fearful of asshole rightwinger gun activists carrying their weaponized phallic devices in public, than someone in a burka. Not that those are related concepts.

To me the real issue is security. 

Totally aside from any consideration of human rights, burqas hide the face so they aren't acceptable. 

People have the right to buy into an oppressive ideology.  They do not have the right to go around like anonymous black ghosts in big garments that could have machine guns in them. 

Nuns aren't hiding their face, they have every right to cover their hair. 

I wear an allergy mask when I'm outside, so my face is hidden somewhat.  But not like a burqa hides a face!

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