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Permalink Reply by Madhukar Kulkarni on November 29, 2012 at 9:55am

 24th of June 2037, barely 25 years since now. I do not know the reason for your optimism but I feel that there will be very little change in Muslim world in such a short time. This would be possible only if  a strong liberal movement would be existing in the Muslim world, which is not there.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Tawney on October 31, 2012 at 8:30am

Kalliope

A fascinating reply! It has given me some insight and things to ponder (not to mention, to look up!).

I look forward to learning about your personal journey.

Thanks for posting!

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Permalink Reply by Eric Tawney on November 4, 2012 at 12:56am

I know there are former Muslims who have struggled with leaving their culture and beliefs behind. I want to know your stories

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Permalink Reply by Eric Tawney on November 11, 2012 at 9:54am

Kalliope, I'm glad you replied, but nothing posted...

try again? (Or is Allah preventing you from posting??)

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Permalink Reply by Eric Tawney on November 12, 2012 at 8:05am

Kalliope, don't you know that Sunday is My Day of Rest! ?

I've been so busy running the world and all, but I'm happy to spend time here.

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Permalink Reply by Madhukar Kulkarni on November 29, 2012 at 9:49am

I always say that Muslim religion is difficult to live in and even more difficult to leave. The Quran prescribes death penalty for a muslim deserter. Despite this, there are more muslim atheists than we notice. Every society has closeted atheists who face difficulties in coming out in open and Islam is no exception.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Tawney on November 29, 2012 at 3:52pm

Madhukar, I'm an optimistic person in general and hope that visions of reality set in on the world, especially the Muslim world. To me this culture seems most recalcitrant. Perhaps it also the most violent, especially concerning apostasy. I'm glad most Muslims are not violent and are accommodating of 'The Other" (like me).

I'm not sure why you think 25 years from now things will be better in the Muslim world. What made you pick that time? In 2000 years, it has not changed much, and I doubt that 25 years is enough to change such an intransigent culture.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Tawney on December 1, 2012 at 5:05pm

Kalliope, the change you mention is great, but this progress still leaves the religion as a majorly repressive cult compared to modernity and to other religions. While I agree that Islam has come a long way, it is still stuck in the iron age. Even in this age of technology, prayer times are still determined by an Imam in Saudi Arabia who must see the actual, physical location of the moon in order to determine the times of day worshipers must bow to the east in Allah's honor.

As a religion, Islam is different. For some reason it has a deeper hook in it's victims than other religions, and I don't know why. Where is the originating? Why would/do women subjugate themselves in such a way, and yet believe they are NOT. This whole culture seems so repressive, misogynistic, and prone to or even accepting of violence. What other religion is this way? Why are there SO many believers?

These are the questions I hope to explore and understand.

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Permalink Reply by michele ricketts on December 3, 2012 at 10:06pm

Comng from the other end of the spectrum I know someone who lived in Yemen and adored the culture and the people. Similarily in Turkey. He is a a solid atheist but has a lot of respect for the Koran because it has great structure and good advice morally for how people should live. He says it put down in a lot of detail what good conduct means and everybody knows everybody knows so no room for fudging or a delinquent doesn't know better if they have ears or can read. I don't know to what extent this is true but certainly it is more explicit than the Christian Bible; the Jewish Bible is just rigorous in codes to live by. Of course the fundamentalists invest axioms on Mohammed's words but he says the Koran itself has many positive values ordering soceity and that is from his own humanitarian western standpoint.
Thing is this value is riddled with Allah-as you say stuck in the iron age !! But religion is as much a cultural glue for a soceity as honouring God and the two become inseperable.Many moslems don't want to become westernised or be influenced by the west as though it's best. As I think is happening in Iran today. Even the women are well educated but theism is a cultural shield to block the west in their affairs after the debacle with their puppet king to the USA etc.....In this light they don't want to embrace atheism because it's a western concept even if educated enough to harbour agnostic type ideas intellectually
The Bible became a joke in Europe in terms of its ability to hold together the family in modern times. What Islam has is deservedly great family values it is not all doom and gloom for moslem wives mothers or even daughters. Its not perfect in unstable countries for women but better than the family unit is doing in the west.
These social forces are as strong as the belief ones which is why moslems don't become atheists .

Perhaps one fine day the Koran will edit out the paternalistic axioms and the god bit and keep the moral/ traditional codes good for family and soceity.......I think not! !!

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