As taught to me from the many different Xtian faiths I have been subject
to ( I use the word subject purposefully) I learned that when you brush
away all the different specific interpretations of various christians,
you come down to a few (i call them) core foundations. I don't want to
address all the diatribe that usually is all over religious threads (ie
prove this/ you can't prove that etc.) I wish to address a rather
blatant errors of logic and ethics that god himself is responsible for.
But first the foundation.

These are vague for a reason, because i am designing these foundations
to include both literal and non literal reading of the bible.
(Genesis especially has been deemed "ok" to interpret and i think for
obvious reasons, still the error of ethics occurs no matter how liberal
you are in reading it.

1. Man is separated from god due to sin
2. sin was created when man decided to "disobey" god (see Gen. for more
red-delicious details)
3. Jesus is the way to bridge the gap that sin creates between man and

From this we can see that man=sinner is the foundation of why we need
this faith as opposed to any other or none.

Now ALL of this like so much else in this faith hinges on the idea that
sin is A) real B) all up in your hizouse(inherently the human condition)
C) Sin was rightfully branded upon the human race.
It is C) that i wish to address.

Gen2 16 And the LORD God commanded
the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the
tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will
surely die."

Gen3 4 "You will not surely die,"
the serpent said to the woman. 5
"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and
you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

So from those two verses we can infer that:
1. Man prior to "eating the apple" had no predisposition to or knowledge
of the the concepts of "good and evil"
2. God willingly withheld the "knowledge" of "good and evil" when
creating man. (I will NOT addressing the ethic behind withholding
2a. Assertion 2 is backed up by the fact that the serpent was tempting
Adam and Eve with knowledge of good and evil, and would not be able to
do so if they already possessed such knowledge.

So from the perspective of Adam and Eve they have two choices, and
because they lack any ability to distinguish good from evil (at this
point in the story) let alone know that there are such things, it is 
equivalent to a person standing at a fork in the road and having to
choose left or right with two men on each side of the road saying
inflammatory things about the other and trying their best to get the
people to pick their direction. Adam and Eve were built
incompletely, and were unable to handle making any informed decision in
any matter regarding the morality of their decisions. Again remember
that these individuals apparently had never seen death (Bible says no
death prior to sin) so even gods not-so-veiled threat of death falls on
deaf ears because they would not fully understand what that was, and can
not be used to support the idea that Adam and Eve should have know
better. When you break this down god created an inefficient creation and
then judges it accordingly.

My final assertion: God creating man and not giving him knowledge of
good and evil and then judging their actions (prior to gaining said
knowledge) as evil, well do i even need to finish this thought I think
an this point I've spelled it out pretty good, God's a dick! And Genesis
it the first "historical" case of entrapment.

This is an argument against God i have been hashing out please feel free to help me add to it. I'm looking to stay away from traditional "that's impossible" arguments and even here's contrary evidence arguments, because both don't work  on the faithful. I'm looking at the Bible and using it against itself on the "hinge points" of the faith as a whole because i find that if you can trap a christian in a you said this but if it doesn't apply here then what can work better and throwing insurmountable evidence to the contrary.   I've seen other treads similar to this but I put it here so 1 I can have help hashing out this argument farther specifically and 2 This seems like it gets more traffic.

/also new here, Hi!
//Yay my first thread!!
///Hope someone likes my apple joke... lol

Tags: Entrapment, Ethics, Genesis, Morals

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Excellent job!
I really like this, What I would try to do is create an analogy that doesn't reference the bible or god or adam or eve. something you can lead the conversation with. Say I have 2 dilemmas for you. Tell the analogy story that has nothing to do with god or the bible but hinges on the exact same principals, then ask something like "what do you think?" as they explain how its not fair to punish someone with death if they are unable to make an informed decision, or something to this degree, agree with them then begin to tell them the Genesis story just as you wrote it here. That might give it a better effect on someone so brainwashed and defensive about their faith.
Excellent argument. I have also had a hard time swallowing the concept of being guilty of sins of our ancestors.
There's no such thing as sin.

Adam and Eve never existed.

Ipso facto.


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