I think that religion didn't cause anything good but only start wars, create gilt , hold science back , repressing women's rights, repress sexual subjects , promotes violence racism sectrianism backwardness discrimination ignorance , violates human rights , opression of homosexuals , bigotry , hatred , extremism , terrorism . But sometimes it helps people cope with their problems. I want to hear your opinions and arguments. Plus excuse my English since it's a second language.
PS : I meant abolish not by forcing but using logic and reason.
DarkBlack, faith is not a virtue! If we can get over that myth we come a long way. Indeed,
1. Take away free pass, including deductions for property and tax income.
2. Name creationism as a fiction, not a fact and secure it with law.
3. Hold religious popes, priests, pastors, participants accountable to all laws, including protecting children from pedophiles.
4. Maintain the right and responsibility to speak truth without placating or acquiescing to those who feel "offended".
5. Prevent those dreadful, uninvited door ringers from intruding on property or time.
6. Make it possible to block unrequested religious material from coming into my email box.
Great idea, DarkBlack! I support you.
I think religion should not be abolished, but should be given the same status as the local football club.
They should be subject to the same laws as everyone else; so no tax breaks, no violation of human rights, no legal exceptions for religious reasons; and if your religious practices cause difficulties (e.g. your dietary requirements are not catered for in your workplace) then you choose to either cope with the difficulty or stop the activity.
If people want to do an activity that is legal, self funded and doesn't impact non participants then I see no reason why they shouldn't, even if I think their activity is disgusting or immoral.
Most casual religion is fine. People just use it as a mental aid for coping with life and it can be a good source of friends and social events. It's when you get devoted religious people or religion gains power that you find ignorance and oppression start to occur.
Yep. If it's legal and I'm not paying for people to be lulled to sleep with a safety blanket of eternal life, they can pursue whatever religious means they deem necessary. Won't keep me from pitying them, though - and I'll never respect what they do.
I don't like it when they use charity as a cause for avoiding taxes. As the late, great "Hitch" said, when asked if he would deny that religions do good in the world: "I have indeed heard it said that Hamas provides social services in Gaza". The point being, that doing a few good things doesn't wash the crimson from their hands.
.... especially while they are still in the process of committing the crimes....
Pity has no place in this conversation, for me. If an individual thinks and acts based on religious dogma, there is no reason to pity them. I reserve pity for the quadriplegic who is locked into his/her mind through disease or disaster, and is physically unable to escape the environment.
Charity is a term and attitude and action that has it's ugly side. Have you experienced the person doing charity and tells everybody how many bowls of soup they poured that day, or how many blankets they gave away, or how many miles they traveled to deliver medicine to hungry, homeless, sick, displaced people.
Why don't they spend at least part of that time, energy and money getting at the root cause of hunger, homelessness, sickness and displacement? It is not an impossible thing to do, I have done it many times in my life, not enough to change a huge system, but enough to develop community resources and challenge dominators and get changes done.
Hunger and all those other factors are not accidents only; many are created by faulty politics, economics and religious entanglement.
Joan, have you considered that, if we rely on persuasion rather than force to procure the necessary resources, doing the kind of charity you describe (and accepting that people seek recognition for what they do) is as close as we will get to root causes?
I'm less idealistic. Getting to root causes will require more than anything we humans have done to date. It will include adapting our behavior to accommodate at least these:
1. a sufficiently democratic socialism will not soon replace capitalism,
2 a Darwinian struggle for survival will trump all that we know how to do, and
3. our existence in environments (earth, solar system, etc) that don't provide for us.
Discussing those leaves no time for recognizing that descent with modification produces offspring who, if they survive, will struggle with disabilities too numerous to identify and too costly to treat.
We will not soon have the knowledge, the wealth, and the will to deal with root causes.
Hm-m-m, why do these words come to mind: "pour the beer, sing Dream the Impossible Dream and rest well for the day to come."
Agree with what you say Lucas.
No tax breaks!!
Lucas, I agree!
No I don't think it should be abolished.. you can't deny someone the right to believe whatever they believe but I am damn sure I want secularism and their stuff separated from government in its entirety.
Agreed, and I would like to be able to state clearly, concretely and precisely that I think capitalism is a failure, religion is a fiction, and economics designed o drain working people of their rightful share of profits is a crime.
Joan - I agree that capitalism has some major issues, including Board of Directors that are not responsive to shareholders, focus on short term profits vs. long term profits, excessive bonuses going to management that is not tied to improved performance, etc., etc.
Government is also a part of the problem - corruption, lack of transparency. The corruption at Fannie and Freddie contributed to the housing bubble/financial crash, but we still don't know the full story. Government regulators also seem to be behind the curve and are solving yesterday's problems vs. uncovering future problems (financial derivatives, etc). FEMA/State and Local Governments was to be restructured after Katrina to the standard of handling two nuclear events in two different cities, at the same time. We are not ready to handle one large disaster, let alone two.
I don't have the answers, just musing. Has any economic system worked on a large scale for any length of time ? The Euro Zone does not have seem to have the answers as we are seeing. The Soviet system was a disaster. It is too early to judge the hybrid system in China. There has been some successes in smaller countries with smaller populations, plus uniform values and culture (Sweden comes to mind). I just fiqured from your reply above, that you might have something in mind.
Governments on 75% area of this world have no official religion. They have secular laws, not guided by any scripture or a god. This is as good as abolishing religion. Influence of religion, in my opinion, is definitely on the decline on the earth and in not too distant future, say in about 200 years, religion and god will be forgotten. This is writing on the wall. Just be firm in your beliefs and be patient.
Madhukar, what wall are you reading? I don't see the words anywhere. If they exist, upon what evidence do they write it?
I believe freedom and justice are earned, not given. I believe a human being has a right and responsibility to speak truth to power and not have their ears and noses cut off and their tongues not run through with a white hot iron nail. I believe individuals have a right to join with others and make their right to share in profits known. We have seen people rise up before and it brings death, maiming and destruction in its wake. There are ways to prevent such tragedies, but I believe people don't give up power willingly or fairly. They give as little as they can get away with.