Do you simulate pray in a group setting?

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Permalink Reply by Greg on January 15, 2013 at 3:32pm

I would agree about not getting grief for not joining in. With my wife it's not hard. She knows where I stand on this, although she has serious disagreement. So far, I've been able to avoid issues with the in-laws. I know a day is coming where it's going to get pretty unconfortable. They're Kansas bible thumpers of the type where every topic of conversation somehow has a connection to god or the bible. Drives me nuts but if I have faith in anything it's that they won't come visit more than once a year or so. Besides, it's like practicing for the day when they have alzheimers.

As I've mentioned before, we do "thank U's" in our house before dinner so that seems to deflect the issue. We go around the table with everybody expressing their appreciation for something. It could be an act of kindness by one of us, a neighbor or anyone else they know. It could be an appreciation for something as simple as the weather. My son, 7 years old, once thanked the company that made the Skylanders video game. I thought that was somehow appropriate. None of it is religious...that comes in the end, with my wife leading the kids in their catholic type whatnots. I have a lot of practice at appearing respectful. The more I do it, the less I feel my manhood or dignity has been sacrificed. I think it's a sign of personal strength that a person can be firm in their beliefs yet accept others in theirs. Of course that assumes they make no significant demands upon us.

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Permalink Reply by Humble Pie on January 15, 2013 at 1:14pm

Usually I will just not pray, nor pretend to. Have a look around. See who else isn't praying. It's a great way to figure out who in your group isn't afraid to buck the norm, even if they may still be theists. If the prayer drones on and on, I might read or look at my phone, but that doesn't happen too often.

The exception is when visiting my mother's parents. Though they know I don't attend church, I've never talked much with them about it, and my grandfather will often ask me to "ask the blessing". Not having it in myself to say no, instead I *give* a blessing. Consider it the humanist version of prayer. It turns out, group prayer was never about communicating with god. It's all about the people who hear you. Translating it to my new-found "faith" wasn't hard at all.

Thought you all might find that compromise interesting. It always makes me giggle when my mom rolls her eyes after my un-prayer. 

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Permalink Reply by Luara on January 15, 2013 at 3:09pm

I used to go to 12-step meetings for abuse survivors.  The idea is that people share something they need to talk about - their feelings, their struggles - while others listened without comment. 

This felt to me - both talking and listening - like a spiritual thing.  Like the sharing was about asking for some kind of help and the listening was about giving love - being on the God-end of things. 

After the meeting people would continue sharing in conversations with others, stimulated by what had happened in the meeting. 

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Permalink Reply by Greg on January 15, 2013 at 3:46pm

Luara,

That's a very nice story. I've had similar feelings in the past, especially in conversations with others that required exposing vulnerabilities and possibly appearing weak. There is something about experiencing empathy and expressing compassion that somehow feels spiritual. I've come to believe this is probably the best part of how we are wired as humans. At the same time, I've also wondered if it played a part in the creation of religions. I'd much rather think this than that it was created by opportunists to exploit others.

And so it goes, all my thoughts lead to rambling speculation...

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Permalink Reply by Luara on January 15, 2013 at 5:29pm

It seemed to me that religion was tinselly by comparison, with the bad smell of craziness.  

As Yeats wrote, "Love has pitched his mansion in the place of excrement, for nothing can be sole or whole that has not been rent"

Of course the experience had its warts too ...

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Permalink Reply by Tim on January 15, 2013 at 2:17pm

I don't belive in it, I didnt ask to participate in it, yet I'm obliged to show it some respect! I don't get it.. If I said let's do some atheist dogmatic ritual, as if one existed. Would these same people put there hands in an "a" shape to symbolize atheism out of respect for me? Absolutely not! In fact they would be offend at the mere suggestion of such a thing. I think it goes back to the "assumption" that everyone is Christain. Or that nobody could find it offensive to have group prayer at work, before a kids little league game, etc. It's not offensive to me, but I will not "fake it" because respect or not it makes me feel like a sell out! So it boils down to being true to ones self, or a perceived disrespect on the other hand. I'm gonna always go with being true with myself, keep my self dignity preserved! :) thanks for all the feed back, it's always most welcomed.

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Permalink Reply by Tim on January 15, 2013 at 4:07pm

If your acting like your praying to save face.. Then your simply lying to your own!! I don't believe in God, yet I should succumb to what, social pressure? People say its about respect.. yeah mine or theirs? And by this logic should I kneel an fake pray to the east if a Muslim cleric delivers a prayer from the Koran? Different story now.. Or is it?? last time I checked Atheist don't pray!

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Permalink Reply by John Carver on January 15, 2013 at 4:20pm

After years of my ridiculous early practice of splitting the difference (bowing my head but keeping my eyes open!), I finally decided to do about what Steph S said, that is, head up, eyes open, glancing around the room, but trying not to appear as if 'sneaking a peak,' so to speak, by staring at persons who are genuinly praying.

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Permalink Reply by Tim on January 15, 2013 at 4:59pm

If I was a monotheist, an I knew you were an Atheist. Isn't it obvious that I know when I pray you are not going too? Do you feel I have the right to be offended because I asked others to pray an you choose to read the newspaper? knowing fully well my dogma isn't part of your vocabulary? Honestly if I was a monotheist, I wouldn't except anything else from an Atheist. I'd find it more offensive to see an Atheist fake it!

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