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Do the "Ends Justify the Means" in Ridding the World of Religion?

You read it right.

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Trance Gemini on November 16, 2009 at 5:20am

No.

For example, what would be the point of eliminating religion if we decided to use the same methods they do?

"Ends justify the means" is a concept of the morally bankrupt IMO and often leads down the path of extremism and terrorism because any act can be "justified" under the name of a "higher good".

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Permalink Reply by Alan Marcus on November 20, 2009 at 10:23pm

This is my first reaction as well. All too often, the 'means' are so egregious that the 'ends' are forgotten!

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Permalink Reply by Trance Gemini on November 21, 2009 at 5:45am

All too often, the 'means' are so egregious that the 'ends' are forgotten!

Nicely put. I may steal that phrase and quote you. Lol.

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Permalink Reply by Jacob Gladden on November 19, 2009 at 8:06pm

I don't know. That's certainly the thinking religion used to get where we are today. I personally would look the other way if Christianity got it's comeuppance by way of violent lynchings in the street. It would be no more than hard-line followers of that thought system deserve for their stupidity. You have to leave room for the people that attend the church of "whenever-it-suits-me". Those would fall in line when they saw which way the wind was blowing. I mean people are entitled to their stupidity but when it affects ME I want it dealt with.

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Permalink Reply by Josh on November 25, 2009 at 5:44pm

The answer to persecution is not more persecution.

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Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on November 25, 2009 at 6:08pm

The answer also is not laying down and playing dead or worse, pretending that things will get better. I've lived nearly 59 years without having to arm myself, but if I see things even hinting at drifting into dangerous territory for the rationalist / atheist community, I will have no compunction about purchasing a Glock 22, logging practice time at a local range, and obtaining a concealed carry permit.

Forewarned is forearmed.

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Permalink Reply by Josh on November 25, 2009 at 6:21pm

That's completely different from 'looking the other way if Christianity got it's [sic] comeuppance by way of violent lynchings in the street'.

I have no issue with defending oneself, with fighting back, or even with killing for one's own safety. I absolutely do have a problem with lynchings and the persecution of people based on their beliefs. Actions can justify reprisal, beliefs cannot. I would no more want to see fundamentalist Christians being lynched for their beliefs than atheists for theirs.

'What is hateful to yourself, do not do to your fellow man.'

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Permalink Reply by AletheaT on November 19, 2009 at 10:48pm

I like ignoring religion, but if the problems caused by them start to affect me in negative ways I would want to fight back. And if they want to use underhanded tactics against me why not do the same to them?

Where is our Atheist Crusade? :)

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Permalink Reply by Jacob Gladden on November 20, 2009 at 12:17am

It's coming. You can't teach children any science in school and then tell them to believe in god in church and not sow some doubts. The rest is up to the child. Our numbers will grow. And people waving bibles in your face on a street corner are going to get old real fast. It will be easy for people to be intolerant when they are in the majority and religion will knock it off and go hide in a corner.

Where's our King Richard? :(

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Permalink Reply by J S H on November 20, 2009 at 1:09am

No.

If we rip it apart with violence, we'll have not only justified their moaning about being downtrodden, they'll have a foundation to rebuild with. If we use logic, show them how outdated and downright silly their system of thinking is, it'll rot from the inside out.

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Permalink Reply by Johnny on November 20, 2009 at 1:39am

YES! that's what is most important: preventing the rebuilding.

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Permalink Reply by Johnny on November 20, 2009 at 1:34am

hm, your thought processes in the 2 blogs i read are starting to scare me a bit, but I will always humor an opposite opinion and hope you pursue knowledge rather than sadism.

uh... do you know why I don't respect theists? Because they think like that. They hurt people using that kind of thinking. If you use it to justify atheist treatment of theists, not only do you defeat the purpose of secularizing the world, but you also create a new kind of extremist and irrational bigot.

If you go against what you stand for in reason to justify an end you can not possibly foresee, I say you're no better than a theist. A new kind of ethocentric bigot who seeks to crush all theism... that's scary. It's scarier to me than theism. What right have you to say that theists don't deserve to keep their religion?

You don't. They are warlike, irrational, and intolerable, but if you really want to rid the world of those qualities: first you shouldn't use them yourself in combatting them and second you won't have any justification besides your own "faith" in atheism to do so. Not everybody can reason worth a shit, so you just want to convert those people with fear? What kind of atheist does that make you? A powerhungry dictator?

I'm not proud enough (or theist enough) to say that I know what's best for the entire world. If people are going to become peaceful and logical atheists (why else would you bother trying to deconvert them?) they need to be recruited that way. You're stuck in an illogical rut.

Forgive my annoyance. I just thought that being on an atheist site would remove me from this kind of thinking.