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Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on January 18, 2010 at 8:49pm

Jez Smith: Behaving in such a way only allows these people to get away with their bullying tactics, and people saying 'oh we are a hated minority' is neither useful or true.
In normal countries you would be able to take any employer to court if they started to make life difficult because you are an atheist

Your idealism is charming. It reminds me of a quote -

"Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem." -- John Galsworthy

What you and most folk with similar world views fail to apprehend is that discrimination does not have to be overt. Most of it in fact happens in ways that are invisible to all except the truly paranoid. Getting overlooked for opportunities, being given bad shifts and jobs to do no one else wants, missing out on the cubicle with the window. Bonuses, which you are usually told never to discuss with your co-workers, may be trimmed down or denied altogether. Credit for achievements may be understated or even misappropriated by believers and no one will believe you. The list is endless and depressing.

Everyone discriminates. Those that discriminate the most also tend to be those that voice anti-discrimination the loudest. You discriminate. I discriminate. Be honest with yourself. It's a fact of life. So what precisely do you stand to gain by advertising yourself to a workplace full of strangers amongst whom there is guaranteed to be at least a few messianic nutjobs, possibly even your superiors. In terms of personal win/loss, you are extremely unlikely to score a win. Unless you count very public ACLU legal action on your behalf that will follow you for life to be a win [*].

Really, get real.

[*] - this is not to put down any folks that fight the good fight. Those that are brave enough and have the strength to do it do us all proud, and we need more. But not everyone is prepared to handle the full consequences. To those I say again, there is no shame in anonymity.

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Permalink Reply by gozombiego on January 18, 2010 at 9:12pm

Great quote. And I agree. It isn't always overt. I think that in most cases, it's probably not overt at all.

I mean, sure, you can be fully aware that they are screwing you over because of your atheism, but unless you are working for someone extremely, extremely stupid, it'd be hard to actually prove that in court.

I mean, if they can your ass over it, what are they going to do? Write down "godless hellbound heathen" under a company-wide email entitled "Reasons Why We Fired That Guy"? Of course not. But if they get asked why, they'll say "budget cuts" or "downsizing" or similar.

Does it suck? Sure. It sucks for everyone that has to deal with that kind of stuff, and it's not just atheists. But that's the way the world works sometimes. We have to use common sense.

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Permalink Reply by Jordan on January 18, 2010 at 9:21pm

agreed.
I am well aware of my chances of winning that battle.
If other people did not depend on me and those same people would be unaffected, it would be a whole other story in a different book in another library far far away.

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Permalink Reply by Little Name Atheist on January 19, 2010 at 9:33am

The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

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Permalink Reply by Little Name Atheist on January 20, 2010 at 12:14pm

A contradiction of terms.

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Permalink Reply by Brittany A. Cox on January 19, 2010 at 1:49pm

I do the same thing Jordan F. I go to a conservative baptist christian college. If I get caught with a drink in my hand, a lesbian in my bed, or an atheist thought, they tell me they have the right to kick me out. It is a private school, and I have been looking up case law to see if they really can do this to me. And sadly, they could. It is sad when we must hide who we truly are.

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Permalink Reply by Freedom of Anonymity on January 20, 2010 at 12:28pm

It has been said "prudence favors the wise" ...

Don't really have any idea what it means, but it sounds real academic and intellectual like you know your shit ...

So, yeah, be prudent ... ?

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Permalink Reply by Ester on February 6, 2010 at 9:25pm

I saw I good FB religion today. It said: A couple a dudes wrote the bible... come on, think about it.

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Permalink Reply by Charles on February 6, 2010 at 10:19pm

I can understand that.Society is harsh to judge non-believers.I have never told people I have worked with that I'm an atheist.No need to really.Why would I want to be treated differently than others.

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Permalink Reply by Jon Fleming on February 6, 2010 at 10:29pm

I really feel lucky to be in the position i am in when i read some of these posts. Being a Union Worker they actually have rules and contracts they are stuck following when it comes to how they can punish me for anything. They Can't lay me off or release me outside of the order of seniority and being a 2 year journeymen they would have to lay off atleast a third of the Store just to reach my level and even then i would be able to draw on the pention as well as unemployment well they would have to offer me a job back if any positions opened in the same order of seniority as released. Our union Lawyers do a good job at requiring proof for termination and if none can be found they are quick to arbitration with recent results of back pay at overtime rate for time not at work and re instament to position you were released from. When i lived in Northern Kentucky i was openly atheist and that lead to straight up fist fights in someplaces i dont miss the south ore the bible belt glad to be in Oregon.

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Permalink Reply by Jordan on February 21, 2010 at 6:03pm

Little update
I have pretty much let the cat out of the bag. A fellow co-worker was talking about how he really tried but couldn't follow Catholicism, and with out even thinking I said aloud (in front of the whole office) "So you decided to go with science and reasoning?" The whole place went quite for awhile and I could feel the looks. I think I am getting to the point in my life where I really don't give a shit.

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Permalink Reply by Suzanne Watts on February 21, 2010 at 11:13pm

My religious views say "Rational" on Facebook. I'm friends with family members who are die hard Christians and have gotten a fair few hateful messages in response to that. While I haven't changed it, I certainly understand why you would. There's no reason to suffer for your beliefs no matter what they may be.

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