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"Communing" with God?
What do you think of people who say they can or want to "commune" with God? Do you think it is possible? What do you think of people who claim to have had "spiritual" experiences?
I spent many years of my life around people who thought they could do such things, and I was unwittingly influenced by them in my younger years. I've found lots of good arguments against the Bible and other religious texts. But the whole communing with God thing, and transcending into some spiritual realm is kind of freaky to me. I haven't heard any good arguments against it (other than just saying anyone who claims it is a liar or has severe mental problems.)
Is it simply a case of people believing what they want to believe; they want to see it/experience it so badly that they imagine it themselves subconsciously and the conscious mind latches on to it as real? Or the mind grabs on to an image it had seen on a television show and projects it like a repetitive memory?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Fred Price on -
i think its all bullshit. religion and angels and stuff are used by the believers too comfort them because cannot face reality.
its like when you are a kid, if there is a storm or something in the night, you run too your parents room or cuddle your teddy bear.
religion and the like is nowhere in this world but the mind of men anmd women whio are, perhaps for entirely legitimate reasons, to weak to face up too the reality of their life.
when i say for legitimate reasons, i mean that maybe they fought in a war or saw a loved one die in an accident.
point being, like much in life, my preoblem is not necessarilly with religious people, its the type of lie they are willing to believe as part of their religion that pisses me off.
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Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on -
What do you think of people who say they can or want to "commune" with God? Do you think it is possible? What do you think of people who claim to have had "spiritual" experiences?
I think they suffer from guanopsychosis. They just make it all up. It's just in their head.
I haven't heard any good arguments against it
How can you logically argue against someone's imagination? The cannot commune with a god that does not exist. It is all self-imposed delusion.
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Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on -
There are many drugs that have been used, historically, to create and facilitate spiritual experiences in people. That experience, according to indian tribal leaders and shamans, was not with the Christian god, but with their own natural deities. The thing is, theres a science called Pharmokinetics, a science of chemical interactions with the brain. from what we as a species are realizing, there are natural drugs created in the brain that create emotions and sensations in the body~ drugs like heroin or xanax merely imitate the chemicals, or induce them to be released, creating the feeling naturally found already. A scientist (I forget his name, but it can be easily researched) has created what he calls the 'god helmet,' a magnetic helmet that when worn simulates and creates the sensation of being surrounded by people, or a god like figure.
what I'm trying to get at is the things people consider being spiritual can all be recreated in the mind secularly, without a belief in god. they are not exclusive to being religious; they are a universal human experience. religion for most is merely a way to facilitate that experience, because its not understood that it can be achieved other ways, or that is merely the way that they are most comfortable doing it. There is nothing metaphysical about it, or unexplainable, except maybe intricate details of the inner workings of the experience itself. I, personally, have had experiences that would be described by many as revelatory or super-spiritual, but never associated them with religion, because I understood my intent before having them (aided by powerful hallucinogenics).
I hope that answers some of your query.
[edited for grammar]
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Permalink Reply by New Atheist on -
Thank you. Yes, I've also had experiences, too. If I were a religious or spiritual person, I might try to explain it in a spiritual way, I might even be deluded into thinking that I was contacted by "spirits" or something like that. I am an atheist, I do not take hallucinogenic drugs (or even any legal prescription drugs, alcohol or caffeine), and am not mentally unbalanced (to my knowledge, hehe), I was trying to figure out why I could have such experiences.
Your explanation that these chemicals happen naturally in the brain is a good theory as to why it was happening. Perhaps it is that, or perhaps I am deficient in some essential vitamin or mineral (I do have malabsorption issues), or perhaps the pharmaceuticals that people flush down their toilets don't get adequately removed from the drinking water supply (Well, that may be a little far fetched.)
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Permalink Reply by Edward Teach on -
I think the "communing with god" thing is simply one in a vast array of cognitive/emotional experiences made available by the human brain. The physical sensations are the ebb and flow of neurochemicals and the belief that the experience is coming from an external souce is delusional ideation.
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Permalink Reply by Joseph P on -
(other than just saying anyone who claims it is a liar or has severe mental problems.)
I wouldn't go this far with the walk-a-day believers. Sometimes, even normal, sane people's brains just malfunction. The transcendent, 'at-peace' experience that I've heard some people use to say they 'felt God' is one of them. A rational person will look around and say, "Wow, what the hell was that? Major brain hiccup there." A less rational person will magnify it and turn it into a religious experience.
That's not to say that psychosis hasn't played a role in religion's roots. People who actually heard God's voice were probably schizophrenic, manifesting it as a split-personality. There's a reason that priests tended to be of a particular family line, back in the Old Testament days. Schizophrenia is genetic.
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Permalink Reply by New Atheist on
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Very interesting. I didn't realize this could happen in sane brains, too. That is comforting, because I like to think myself rational and sane (don't we all), but could not explain this "glitch." I'd like to study more about how these glitches/hiccups in the brain happen.
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Permalink Reply by Joseph P on
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Yeah, I know people have explored them. I don't know most of the results, though. The big one I remember is the guy who invented the God Helmet.
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Permalink Reply by Jacob Gladden on -
I don't doubt the reality of some people's claims of communion but I doubt their interpretation of it. Sure, man, something happened to you but it wasn't god; god doesn't exist. I think that once people get around the fact that god doesn't need to be responsible for their spiritual feelings they can come up with a better explanation. I have had a great many 'spiritual' experiences with hallucinogenic drugs or even basic meditation and have never once thought a god had anything to do with it.
People who claim "God spoke to me" are fucking nuts. They give me the creeps.
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Permalink Reply by Joseph P on
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Yeah, I always wonder at people who say they've heard him speaking back to them. Is it some sort of altered mental-state that they've put themselves into where they can't tell their own internal monologue apart from other sources? Schizophrenia can't be that common.
And I'll spare you the puerile visual that popped into my head about you communing with God's ass. :-D
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