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Permalink Reply by Jo Jerome on June 5, 2010 at 10:10am

Additionally, the claim in the bible is that people had to physically return to the city of their birth for the census. This is the bit that is oft-refuted. Makes no logical sense in any day and age.

But, if you are trying to make your myth fit a prophecy, say, the bit about where the hero is supposed to be born, you want to underscore that point. Rather than just "They were from Bethlehem" create a plot vehicle to take them there. It gives the place-name in the story more weight and significance.

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Permalink Reply by John Shuey on May 25, 2010 at 3:32pm

There is another alternative we seem to be overlooking.

Assuming that Mary and Jesus existed as real live persons in history, it is most likely that she was married to Joseph when Jesus was born, and perhaps already had other children. ("Whoring" could be a dangerous business in 3 BC, and no self-respecting or observant Jew would marry a woman carrying a child he could not account for.)

The whole virgin birth was a late contrivance to elevate the status of Jesus by his followers long after his death. In fact, good evidence for such an interpretation can be found in the gospel account saying that at one point Jesus' family thought he was crazy, based on some things he was saying. If there had been a virgin birth, his family would have known who he was and not questioned what he did.

But back to my main point, just because there was no virgin birth is not very convincing evidence that Jesus was conceived out of wedlock or that Mary was a whore.

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Permalink Reply by Sam in WV on May 27, 2010 at 7:13pm

The nativity accounts are in only 2 of the 4 canonical gospels. Both gospels pose a profound contradiction in presenting a kingship descent ("son of David") from Joseph's patriarchy as well as a virgin birth. Non-canonical gospels and early patristic apologist John Martyr (ca. 150) mention the virgin birth but not the Messianic kingship descent. Some scholars claim that the virgin birth was a later contrivance, but notice that the genealogical accounts remain in contradiction.

Even if not original to the accounts, I believe this indicates we are dealing with hagiographic literature here, and not historical reportage. Both types of nativity manifested in the narrative resonated with ancient peoples in the Middle East and the Mediterranean. It was as if the original authors were stating, "take your pick, what is your preference?"

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Permalink Reply by John Loq on May 25, 2010 at 4:04pm

No she wasn't. The catholic church started that bull. She was high born. And probable one of the people Jesus loved best. I am a Atheist who has studied the bible and the history of how it was put together.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Pandelaere on May 27, 2010 at 4:43am

Was Mary a whore? I think that would be giving her too much credit. Whores are independent and admirable people. Mary was a taciturn, passive figure. This comparison is insulting to any whore.

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Permalink Reply by Jo Jerome on June 5, 2010 at 10:12am

Interesting take on it Tom!

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Permalink Reply by Dheeraj on June 5, 2010 at 11:18am

Nice. Well said. Whores are hard working and committed to their profession, unlike this one who gave up on just the first try.

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Permalink Reply by Dheeraj on June 5, 2010 at 11:16am

I prefer not to use use the word whore for a woman who chooses to keep the father of her child a secret. It is a matter of personal choice, women have the ability and someone didn't follow up his screws well enough. That said lets think logically, now how many of us men actually do follow up on our one nights and screw ups (condom burst ...) all along. So lets give the gentleman a break, it happens so what if his child became famous. The child is just a scapegoat, the "sacrificial lamb" for the Politicians!! of the world. Muslim faith allows the ruler to profess his words as Gods words so Christians needed their version too, now it cant be all bad. After all no one is exporting the money made in this whole game out of the planet just yet!
:)

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