Childhood beliefs...Stupid tradition or age of innocence?

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Permalink Reply by Secular Forces 2013 on June 24, 2011 at 6:19pm

with all the different influences out there... it's a tough sell

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Permalink Reply by Matthew Shafer-Skelton on June 24, 2011 at 6:21pm

If your kid believes in Santa at 9 I'm worried about him. I remember at Day Camp in 2nd grade we all talked about how we knew Santa wasn't real. Some kids may have been lying that they didn't to not appear childish, but honestly it was no biggy. I would never tell my kid something untrue was true, and if asked I would say it wasn't. Even to someone else's child. No lying to children.

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Permalink Reply by Darlene on June 25, 2011 at 1:56am

Wait, are you saying Santa isn't real? Then who, may I ask, drinks the beer and eats the cookies we leave out every year?

My teen just fell into the pattern: really believing, then kinda-sorta, then going along with the fun. Personally, I think it's good training in critical thinking to have them start questioning and finding their own answers.

Myths are not untrue, they aren't lies. They are metaphors for life and lessons learned that need to be passed on. Truth is a spectrum. Santa is real, for a given definition of real. He is a metaphor for goodness and kindness and giving to others, and that isn't a bad lesson for a kid to learn. First Santa gives to them, and slowly they become Santa and learn to give to others...my kid loved the transition, and he held on to Santa as long as he could.

If you ask me, I'd tell you he was real. For the same reasons that, when I buy a stuffed animal, I have to package it so it can breath. Because I enjoy the imagination, the fantasy. And because if I can be Santa, then Santa exists. In some form.

Plus, imagination is important. Fairy tales are important. Shared culture and family traditions are important.

We let it run it's course, and no children were harmed in the destruction of this belief :)

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Permalink Reply by Brian Wood on June 25, 2011 at 6:07am

I taught the bible as literature for many years, and I often said the bible was "true"--only insofar as, in places, it reflects the true thinking and feeling of many humans over the centuries.  But I also taught mythology and fiction (novels) the same way. Good literature reflects the human condition and is in that way "true."

 

Is there any better and briefer description of the dichotomies and struggles of human life than this from "Job"?

 

1Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.2 He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down : he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.  

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Permalink Reply by Brittany Shoots-Reinhard on June 26, 2011 at 7:07am

I wasn't angry or anyting when I found out, although I did not do a good job keeping the truth from my little brother.  I actually started questioning religion as a result of Santa and the rest being lies, which isn't likely to happen here :).

 

I think if your nine-year-old asks directly, you should ask him what he thinks and why.  My parents almost never answered a direct question about Santa and the rest; they always asked us what we thought and why.  If the answers reveal that the game's up, though, you should come clean, especially if still believing could cause him to be teased or get angry with you.  

 

I also think you need an explanation for why you've been lying so long.  It could put you in a bad spot to admit to lying, because lying about one thing begs the question: what else have you lied about?  My mom told me about little white lies, like not telling someone that they look bad or helping kids have "a magical childhood" versus big, bad lies that hurt people like letting someone else get in trouble for something you did.  You could try that approach. 

 

PS, my parents still would make the presents, eggs, and money "magically" appear while we were sleeping, so it was awesome even without the made-up stuff.

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Permalink Reply by El Solo Lobo on June 26, 2011 at 8:34am

My take on such things might make folk mad. I don't mean to. It's just that, to me, "innocence" almost always seems to mean "ignorant", especially referring to kids. I never had kids but I would have always told them exactly the truth with no exceptions. I never believed in a Santa Clause. When I was about 4 or 5 I saw "Santa" arrive on a fire truck and he was handing out cheap gifts to the kids of really poor folk. We were there to get "commodities". I could see plain as a day he was some old guy wearing a beard with a strap on string attached to it. I was always amazed...how could any human with a brain not know this?

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Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on June 26, 2011 at 6:00pm

Consider the benefits and costs of the Santa Claus lie.

One benefit: it gets/extorts a few days of good behavior without whatever punishments parents use.

One cost: it wrecks the trust that kids have in their parents.

I'm eighty and still remember where I was and the sadness I felt when I realized that my parents had bought the presents.

 

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Permalink Reply by nomesaffron on June 26, 2011 at 6:32pm

I'm with you about the extortion. My husband does encourage the push for that. If our 6 year old is acting bad he will mention how Santa Claus will not keep him on the nice list. Drives me crazy. I do gently help my son figure out that we get the toys and this is a game that hubby likes to play. My husband loved the magical Santa vibe growing up and I don't remember it either way actually but I do HATE lying to him (and his little brother and sister) so I don't directly lie but in the interest of marriage balance I let him create the mythology. At least he knows he has one parent to give him the straight up answers to his questions!

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Permalink Reply by George on June 27, 2011 at 3:11am

nomesaffron:

That's interesting.  Parents can use Santa as a way of ducking direct responsiblity for disciplining the child.  

Instead of saying, "if you don't behave, we might not give you presents",  you blame it on a magical person!  Furthermore, since Santa's omniscient, the parent doesn't even have to take blame for tattling.  The parent completely avoids being the "bad guy" in the relationship.

I can see how the myth is useful, but there must be more honest ways of doing it!  

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Permalink Reply by Darlene on June 27, 2011 at 8:13am

We always had Santa, but he was never used as a bully stick. One can have the magic of make-believe without the darker side.

However, depending on the kid, sometimes parents need ever tool they can get. And very often a parent does need to avoid being the "bad guy".

For example: we used a timer for video games. The idea being the kid can get mad at the timer telling him to stop, but the parent can avoid being the "bad guy". Natural consequences work for a reason: don't wear a scarf, get cold. Don't clean your room, lose stuff. And the parent neatly sidesteps the battles...

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Permalink Reply by Matthew Shafer-Skelton on June 27, 2011 at 6:19pm

But you are the bad guy. You think its better to lie than be the bad guy? Just makes you more of a bad guy. Parents are allowed to raise their child in the beliefs they see fit, and for that privilege, they are the only one telling the child what not to do. They ARE ARE ARE ARE ARE ARE ARE the bad guy in the sense that it is they who deny their child what that child desires. Fobbing it off on Santa Claus is disingenuous and morally wrong. What i hear you saying is that your child should never ever ever trust you because you are a liar and you don't deserve their trust.

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Permalink Reply by Darlene on June 27, 2011 at 7:30pm

If that is what you hear then there is little point talking to you.

What I said, actually, is that it depends on the parent and the kid. That specific situation. Some kids need more convincing than others. Some kids need to have alternate bad guys because they need so much that the parent has to be able to be a good guy, too. A high needs child can drain a parent quickly, and every interaction becomes a battle. When that happens the parent has to make something else the bad guy--like the timer in the example I used--or else the parent can never be the good guy.

And, actually, the point of parenting is not to be the bad guy. When done effectively there are natural consequences that eliminate the parent as police and focuses on the natural consequences of the child's behavior.

Yes, sometimes it is okay to lie rather than be the bad guy. Or at least to not tell the whole truth.

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