Hi there,

Been engaging in discussions with a friend who is a "conservative Evangelist" and was wondering what you guys think is the best question to ask that will get a Christian brain "thinking"...?

Thanks for ideas,

Linda

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Indeed - up to and including imperatives to cut babes from their mothers' wombs!  VERY charming!  [/sarcasm]

My devout moron mother had 9 miscarriages after I was born......this is a woman who was supposed to have lots of babies......what was the gawd idea there?

Where should I start? Well, let's begin with Genesis. Does a christian really believe that god made all of creation in six days? Or that he created man out of dust and woman out of a man's rib? Or that a snake talked? Or god cause a flood that killed all living things except Noah and his family? Do they believe the boat carried a male and female animal of every kind? Oh! we could go on and on in Genesis alone. Would a christian believe that the Earth and all creation was created 6,000 years ago? Some claim it was 10,000 years ago. 

However, let's move on to Exodus. Does a christian really want to believe in a god who caused the death of the firstborn Egyptian children? Or that he forced friends and family members to kill each other? 

In Leviticus, do they believe god burned Aaron's sons to death for offering "strange fire"? Or caused a blasphemer to be stoned to death? Or that god burned 250 people to death for burning incense? Or that god killed 14,700 for complaining about God's killings? 

In Deuteronomy do believers believe in a god who slowly killed the Israelite army? 

Oh! I am getting tired of doing this task. Just open the bible to page one and start reading. Don't stop until the last page is turned. Then ask a christian if he or she really wants to follow such a belief as is claimed in this book. 

OK, let's take another tack ... Does a christian want to follow a value system that hates women and repeatedly allows pain and suffering, simply because she is a woman. Or who endorses the enslavement of blacks, even to the point of cutting off hands and  feet to keep them from running away from cruelty? Or who hates homosexual activity to the point of torturing them, mongering hatred for them because of their sexual orientation? Or who kill and destroy the property of other christians simply because they are a different kind of christian? Let us not forget that the Puritans cut off the noses of Quakers because they didn't believe the correct things. 

We cannot forget the Christian Crusades, which were the legitimatizing of theft and plunder of those who held different beliefs. I shall never forget that it was under the influence of Cyril, Patriarch of Alexandria, Egypt, that incited the wrath of those who were scientifically oriented and caused the slaughter of Hypatia, and another mob that burned Giordano Bruno, an Italian Dominican friar, philosopher, mathematician, poet, and astrologer for thinking unacceptable thoughts.

Well, I am getting tired of this exercise as well. You may want to look at a very short collection of photos in my photo albums that show individuals burned at the stake or pressed to death, or drowned with a millstone tied to their necks. 

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/albums/heretics-burned-at-the-stake

That's well said, Joan. Your take on Genesis was enough. Who could possibly believe what it says in that book? Yet, christians claim to believe every word of that book as absolute truth complete with creation, the garden, the tree, the snake, and the fall. They fight so hard for belief in Genesis. They have to. Without Genesis you have no fall of mankind. If you have no fall you have no need of any of the rest of it. No need of Jesus, or god, or salvation. Take Genesis away and there is no need of mankind doing a juggling act to "please god." The bible then is unprovable stories told for no reason, and told about others whom we cannot ever know if they really existed. It was that way anyhow, but without Genesis there is no need or reason to "follow."

By gosh, you are right, I could have stopped with Genesis. "Without Genesis you have no fall of mankind." "without Genesis there is no need or reason to 'follow.'"

I like your posts, Joan, and you are most often very accurate in what you say. I admire that. I'm just pointing out (as a former theist) the reason why the believers value Genesis so much, believing the creation story, the literal 6000 year history, etc. They have to make this unbelievable book real to everyone, making it absolute truth. If they fail with Genesis there is no reason to go on with the fairy tale. If Genesis is not literally true there is no need of the bible story that the preachers tell.

Ask about eternity. Think of the best , most enjoyable thing you can imagine. Would it be enjoyable to do it non-stop for 24 hours, a month, five years, FOREVER? No. Certainly sitting at someone's feet on a golden street  would get boring very quickly. So Heaven would suck. OK, what about the bad? Eternal torment would probably become boring as well. I also find it impossible to understand how a disembodied spirit could be tormented by fire.

Also, if god has a plan for you and your story is all laid out where he knows what you are going to do and how you'll end up, then why bother with the exercise? Why not just create souls and put them in heaven or hell? Maybe watching us is like going to the movies for him. haha

Here's a good question to ask christians. What means of transportation did the resurrected Jesus have? I'm just curious. Did he simply put his arms up in the air and fly like Superman? Did he have a time machine? Maybe it was a beaming device like on Star Trek.

I'm also very curious as to why he kept appearing to people "in another form" and exactly what "form" was it that he appeared in? How would anyone know him if he appeared in another form? How many forms does he have? Isn't this a little bit of a clue that he might not be real? Put the apologetics away and just ask yourself the questions.

Can a christian answer this? No, but he will lie to you about it if you ask him.

That's Good! Ask christians for specifics. What , exactly, was seen and heard? What references do they have? How confident are they of the report. What is the earliest written record and when was it written? Great claims require great evidence. Let us hear the evidence!

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