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Hi there,

Been engaging in discussions with a friend who is a "conservative Evangelist" and was wondering what you guys think is the best question to ask that will get a Christian brain "thinking"...?

Thanks for ideas,


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Why won't god confirm his existence, like he (supposedly) used to do? It sure would solve a lot of problems.

That's a good one to ask, Future, but then you will find that the modern apologetics kicks in with them and they explain that "faith" makes you the more blessed today for believing this bullshit without any evidence at all. You may hear about doubting Thomas or any other ad homs while they avoid the question. The end result is that they believe god exists because he does not show himself, and this is the "secret" that they know and we do not. Therefore, the christian goes through life like the cat who has the canary in his mouth. He smiles because he "knows" what we do not. The real true believer will handle every question the same way.

God said it

They believe it

And that settles it

They hate that we might say "god is dead." Truth is, there was never any evidence that god was alive!

Then I guess a better question would be "why did god used to make his presence known, when it is clear that belief in god based on evidence does not represent true faith?" I thought he was infallible.

From The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

Now, it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful [as the Babel fish] could have evolved purely by chance that some have chosen to see it as the final proof of the NON-existence of God. The argument goes something like this:

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that You exist, and so therefore, by Your own arguments, You don't. QED"

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

Stupid God ... all he had to do was quickly retort that he works in mysterious ways, then everything would have magically resolved itself.

I'm obviously cribbing this but what the heck:

Why won't god heal amputees?

Yahweh has apparently done everything from curing Aunt Hattie's lumbago to helping Reverend Jones find his car keys ... but he seems to have this GRUDGE about people who have lost limbs.


Love your ideas, keep 'em coming!

I guess y'all agree that it can be really frustrating and difficult to have any constructive discussions with theists about their beliefs. My friend is actually a doctor and was telling me yesterday how she can't refer women for an abortion due to her faith...and this would also apply to rape victims....

You might mention to her that there are many more miscarriages and fertilized eggs that never implanted than there have EVER been abortions ... not that that will matter to her, but I figure, what the heck.

True true... It's a difficult one to discuss with someone you otherwise like and respect. We're not that close though, so I can't quite pluck up the courage to really challenge her. Easier when dealing with some random person, like the two Jehova's witnesses that turned up at my doorstep today..

[Loren nods knowingly.] Been there, done that.

Indeed - up to and including imperatives to cut babes from their mothers' wombs!  VERY charming!  [/sarcasm]

Where should I start? Well, let's begin with Genesis. Does a christian really believe that god made all of creation in six days? Or that he created man out of dust and woman out of a man's rib? Or that a snake talked? Or god cause a flood that killed all living things except Noah and his family? Do they believe the boat carried a male and female animal of every kind? Oh! we could go on and on in Genesis alone. Would a christian believe that the Earth and all creation was created 6,000 years ago? Some claim it was 10,000 years ago. 

However, let's move on to Exodus. Does a christian really want to believe in a god who caused the death of the firstborn Egyptian children? Or that he forced friends and family members to kill each other? 

In Leviticus, do they believe god burned Aaron's sons to death for offering "strange fire"? Or caused a blasphemer to be stoned to death? Or that god burned 250 people to death for burning incense? Or that god killed 14,700 for complaining about God's killings? 

In Deuteronomy do believers believe in a god who slowly killed the Israelite army? 

Oh! I am getting tired of doing this task. Just open the bible to page one and start reading. Don't stop until the last page is turned. Then ask a christian if he or she really wants to follow such a belief as is claimed in this book. 

OK, let's take another tack ... Does a christian want to follow a value system that hates women and repeatedly allows pain and suffering, simply because she is a woman. Or who endorses the enslavement of blacks, even to the point of cutting off hands and  feet to keep them from running away from cruelty? Or who hates homosexual activity to the point of torturing them, mongering hatred for them because of their sexual orientation? Or who kill and destroy the property of other christians simply because they are a different kind of christian? Let us not forget that the Puritans cut off the noses of Quakers because they didn't believe the correct things. 

We cannot forget the Christian Crusades, which were the legitimatizing of theft and plunder of those who held different beliefs. I shall never forget that it was under the influence of Cyril, Patriarch of Alexandria, Egypt, that incited the wrath of those who were scientifically oriented and caused the slaughter of Hypatia, and another mob that burned Giordano Bruno, an Italian Dominican friar, philosopher, mathematician, poet, and astrologer for thinking unacceptable thoughts.

Well, I am getting tired of this exercise as well. You may want to look at a very short collection of photos in my photo albums that show individuals burned at the stake or pressed to death, or drowned with a millstone tied to their necks.


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