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Permalink Reply by David S on June 26, 2009 at 6:59pm

No. It isn't "bigotry". You seem to be laboring under the illusion that atheism constitutes some kind of belief or value system or that being an atheist requires rejection of every damn thing that religious people think. Atheism just means that god doesn't explain anything; it's not a useful concept in understanding the world and life. But mere atheism doesn't explain anything either. It is neither descriptive of the world nor prescriptive with respect to issues of life. Some people become atheists precisely because they find god an insufficient explanation for some values that seem "universal" or "absolute" (I'm not one of these; I'm just pointing out that there are such). Which comes first belief in god or belief in values?

There are a lot of conservative atheists out there who are conservative politically because they accept some values that christians like to claim as there own. One can accept a value while rejecting the religious claim to it and the religious reasons for it (a common expression used by conservatives is "don't throw the baby out with the bath water). Many "christian values" were in fact formulated and justified by ancient Greeks without reference to god. Examination of church history discloses that many values were adopted by the church in order get non-christians to join. One can accept the value without buying into the theory(s) the church used to integrate the value into their "system". Sometimes the reasons for the value before it was adopted by the church is sufficient to accept the value. Sometime one's personal experience is sufficient to adopt a value and no other reason is necessary. In any case, atheism is not an excuse for any "value system" any more than god is.

"The truly scary part of this is that most atheists don't understand the difference between being an atheist and being an atheist that doesn't follow the value system created by the various religions." This just sets up a strawman which you can then use to bitch about people who don't agree with your political agenda. One reason you don't see many conservative atheists on this and other sites is because this kind of thing makes the site look hostile to begin with. They have most of the same problems as you dealing with reiligious people, they don't need the extra aggravation of being treated as "bigots" politically. They're as interested in rational debate and discourse as anyone, but that applies to politics as well as religion. Proportionally there are as many atheists who would be god as there are religionists. The only difference is the name of the idea they'd have us get on our knees for.

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Permalink Reply by Reality Activist on June 26, 2009 at 8:17pm

Your reply was inappropriate.....based on your response, you misread it. Maybe the word "universal" is too complicated for you.
Oh, by the way, I don't have a political agenda....interesting, though, that you would project such an idea....maybe, you have a political agenda. That is an old psychological trick of fundamentalists.... projecting their prejudices on others.
The fact remains that if you keep values that are religious but not universal....one has to ask the question....Is it bigotry? Judging by your inability to address the question properly due to some kind of indignation, may be you really do think so because you can't give a rational answer.
Of course, you can accuse me of trying to get others to follow my own belief.....but that is pretty hard to do when I have not stated any beliefs. I did ask a question....and I am glad that it caused you an emotional response. Maybe the next time someone exhibits a behavior that is not harmful to society or to yourself, you will remember the bigotry of showing prejudice when it is based on a non universal religious value system.
Maybe being an atheist is not the same as acting like an atheist because acting like an atheist would mean that they would know that specific religious morals are really immoral when compared to universal values....be careful....there is that word again.
So you want to deny the existence of a god....but follow His morals.... How precious! I'm sure your parents would be proud of you.

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Permalink Reply by mthoreau on June 27, 2009 at 10:45am

There are a lot of conservative atheists out there who are conservative politically because they accept some values that christians like to claim as there own.

I'm going to have to disagree with your premise here. There is no such thing as an individualistic religion. While there are a few exceptions (the Gospel of Wealth to name one) these are mostly just anomalies that are more so the get rich quick scheme of some charismatic hucksters. The founding principals of conservatism (which are by no means the contemporary principals of conservatism) are based on the ethics of non-sacrifice which are not compatible with any theistic ethical system that I am aware of. The anti-gay thing and the women belong in the kitchen thing are mainly just cultural memes that would persist (although not nearly as strongly) without religion.

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