Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tammy S on December 20, 2012 at 10:38am

Agreed Viking Don, but I think we have to go a step further and put limits on how much ammo can be purchased by one person on one I.D. at one address in a specified period, the same way we regulate fertilizer materials than can be used to create bombs.

We could use a system already in place like the one we use for cold medications that contain compounds that can be extracted to make meth. The system is there, the software is in place, we would just need to reconfigure the systems for use at shops that sell ammo to use the UPC codes on ammo boxes and a little different tracking/notification system so that they couldn't just go from store to store buying up ammo on the same I.D. It would be easy to implement now with software already in place, it's just getting the location to location notification down and tracking the purchases in a national database, databases already set up for tracking other items could be modified to track large purchases of ammo and of course we'd have to set limits and set exclusions, but it can be done. Then no one feels like they're being too infringed upon, it will just be a minor inconvenience like when I'm trying to buy good cold medication for a sinus cold, it will give them something to complain about but that is what they live for anyway ;) No one solution will stop every madman but we can slow it down to a trickle by making it highly inconvenient for them to buy.

I am also of the opinion that we should have to obtain permits to buy all firearms and not just handguns and that those requirements should include a profile sort of like the MMPI. We're much stricter with CCW's and we should be more stringent across the board. 
 

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Permalink Reply by Russell Pangborn on December 19, 2012 at 3:25pm

Most adults in the school carrying a gun sounds like overkill to me.  I teach in a college and I wouldn't feel comfortable with other professors carrying guns.  We even have a case in Montreal where a professor shot and killed a few of his bosses and colleagues over a dispute. 

I don't understand the more guns will solve everything mantra.  A lot of stable people can become unstable occasionally.  A guy takes out his family and the neighbors say this person was the nicest guy working a good job.  Some of us can do horrible things when hardships strike like an impending divorce, dispute at work etc.

A well trained person can use his gun in a fit of temper or have an accident.  There was just a recent case in the U.S. where a well trained retired police officer mistakenly shot and killed his son.

We all believe in democracy and encourage other countries to follow that model of government.  Some societies have proven that you can be safe with less guns - why can't we copy that great idea.

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Permalink Reply by TNT666 on December 19, 2012 at 3:31pm

Because they didn't become that way after anti-gun laws, they were always that way.

It's very similar to naturally skinny people who get into the fitness business and lie to their customers that by doing the exercises in the video, fatties will shrink to the skinny's size, but those exercises are pointless. The skinny is simply skinny.

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Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on December 19, 2012 at 6:47pm

I don't work in a school.  I work in a clinic.  I deal with thousands of people, up close and personal, in a year's time.

Most interactions are fine, the vast majority, but there are times when people are very angry.  Often it involves them wanting / demanding pain pills, narcotics, or addictive sedatives.  In some cases, it involves a family dispute.  Sometimes just mental illness.  People have attempted to kill me, literally, with their bare hands.  Three times in 15 years, but that's still 3 times.  Each time, out of the blue.  If they had guns, I would already be dead.  There have been other times when the security guards were called.

The idea that I would have to face people who might be carrying a gun would scare the shit out of me.  It boils down to, I would have to be "on" every second of those interactions, ready to "draw" and shoot before they get me.  What are people thinking?  Guns make us safe?  Really?

What a bizarre and stupid concept.  And teachers in a classroom.  Really?   Some shadowy movement at the back of the room, and a kid winds up dead, and it was nothing?  Think, Trayvon Martin, but multiplied in a thousand classrooms across the country.

High schools are stewpots of raging hormones.  There will be tragedies.  Giving teachers the responsibility to carry guns and act, would mean many more tragedies.

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Permalink Reply by A. Noni Moose on December 20, 2012 at 10:12am

Most of the schools I have been in around here have but one unlocked door. That unlocked door goes directly to the front Office. That was the first place the Sandy Hook shooter went. He killed 4-5 there including the principal. That is the only place that a gun would have been required. He approached with an AR-15. Not likely he had it concealed. If there had been 2 trained individuals in that office this would be a very different story. ANd I bet there would have been a lot of very thankful parents.

Do normal people have a possibility to snap and do something bad- Yes indeed. That is where you need redundancy. Not just one armed officer in a school..he could be the culprit himself.

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Permalink Reply by TNT666 on December 20, 2012 at 12:34pm

Not normal people... religious males.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on December 21, 2012 at 12:19am

Russell,

I too would not feel comfortable with other professors carrying guns.

In college long ago I began saying, "You wanna see emotion in action? Go to a faculty senate meeting."

I still occasionally say it.

BTW, I don't understand the fewer-guns-owned-by-law-abiding-people-will-solve-everything mantra.

When even atheists cling (and deny clinging) to the xian fable that humans are better than the descendants of pond scum, I'm not surprised that some of us cling as well to the idea that fewer guns owned by law-abiding people will solve everything.

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Permalink Reply by Bridger Smith on December 20, 2012 at 6:50pm

Yes I agree. And I figured atheists to be more libertarian than leftists, but i guess i was wrong. If you want your rights stripped away every time there is a tragedy well......be my guest, we as Americans have lost more rights in the last 20 years than in the entire history of the country. And it's only getting worse. We have UNEMPLOYED VETERANS that would love to have a job protecting children.

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Permalink Reply by TNT666 on December 21, 2012 at 4:02am

Knee-jerk law-making was made into an interesting book called the Shock Doctrine. Knee-jerk reactions is what gave you USers (and Canadians) the ugly Patriot Act, and a whole bunch of useless self-protection regulations, and bank and insurance Cies bailouts.

Knee-jerk legislation is never as good as long term well studied legislation.

Those of us old enough to remember the golden years of care-free international travel are mourning that future international travel will be reserved for those with big enough budgets to buy doubles of needed baggage upon arriving at destination (I used to bring my bicycle to all countries I travelled to, no more, same for sports gear) and lawyers to untangle the mess of paperwork. Now our Canadian airline is increasing the seat density on planes to make more profits, which will mean that my already tightly fitting ass may no longer be able to sit comfortably in the already cramped spaces in coach, and I certainly can't afford that other section!

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Permalink Reply by Richard Goscicki on December 19, 2012 at 12:40pm

I’m enjoying this debate but let’s get back to the original topic:  what is Atheist Reasoning on the issue of gun control.  To my mind, I blame organized religion for most of the problems in the world.  The notion of afterlife undermines the beauty and wonder of this life.  People wouldn’t be shooting and bombing one another if they realized that this is all there is; we only go around once and we’re so lucky to be alive.    

People wouldn’t be making babies like crazy either.  There’s no doubt in my mind that overpopulation engenders violence.  WWII is a perfect example:  Japan’s 1930s invasion of Manchuria, Germany’s intrusion into the Poland and Russia both had lebensraum (living space) as a primary cause.  There’re countless other examples throughout history: the Cimbri incursion into Italy, the Viking exploitation of Europe, the American manifest destiny.  Overpopulation was at the root of all of it. 

Consider Nigeria, a country of 80 million living in the area the size of Texas.  No wonder they’re throwing bombs in churches, drafting children into rebel armies and hanging gays.  I don’t think strict gun control laws would help alleviate the country’s problems.  How about using oil money to reform and foster education, installing planned parenthood centers on every block in Lagos, enacting draconian anti-corruption laws to punish politicians who cause untold poverty and misery, and above all bodily throwing the Catholic cardinal out of the country and making every priest, mullah and rabbi in the country get a job like everybody else. 

If my proposals work in Nigeria, they might work here as well.  We have to get to the root of the problem and that’s overpopulation, hence religion.

 

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Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on December 21, 2012 at 12:23am

Richard, don't you sometimes ask how intelligent the xian intelligent designer was?

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Permalink Reply by TNT666 on December 19, 2012 at 1:05pm

For any atheists capable of critical reasoning following critical reading of graphs, we should all be able to see that shooting trends were on the decline before various states/countries passed their various anti-gun legislations, and that rates did not drop faster immediately after such legislation, and have continued to drop at globally similar levels since such legislation. Furthermore comparing countries of different cultures is pretty useless.

A more valid comparison is between Canadians kill rates and USA kill rates, which have been getting closer through the years, even though one would expect them to stay at the same difference from each other.

There is an issue which is always silenced EVERY time there a crime spree and there are crime sprees in all countries, no matter the country... it's always religious males (well nearly always). Religiosity is a mental illness, combine this with "boys will be boys" parenting techniques, and you get rampaging males killing more females and children, because men feel entitled to dominate all around them, because they're boys.

This listing provides the top 15 rampages in each category and in each country, you can go beyond each top 15 and look at each list individually. Have fun counting the females, you don't need many fingers.

If being atheist is at all relevant in this topic, it should mean being able to look at stats critically instead of listening to media fear hype. Hopefully, atheist breeders don't use the "boys will be boys" parental technique.

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