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Permalink Reply by Heather Natale on July 12, 2010 at 8:30am

Ahh, but have you ever seen an old German family bible? They are big, and hard covered and very heavy. I have my old family bible it belonged to my great grandfather...I need both my hands to lift it.

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Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on July 9, 2010 at 9:40pm

http://www.atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/2182797:Topic:91657

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Permalink Reply by Jezzy on July 10, 2010 at 5:52pm

Sorry Professor Meaniepants Grogan. I didn't look it up because really, I wasn't expecting anything to come of the word "poser". (I still don't understand why old discussions > new ones. As I said, on many forums, it's annoying and rude to bump up dead ones.)

Should I delete this, close this, or let it die?

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Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on July 10, 2010 at 7:56pm

Sorry Jezzy, it wasn't a dig. Should have prefaced it. Just an FYI, some stuff that might have interested.

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Permalink Reply by Jezzy on July 11, 2010 at 5:15pm

Sorry. Shouldn't have gotten my zoloft in a knot...

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Permalink Reply by funk Q on July 10, 2010 at 9:16pm

It's what some people do. Not every member of a religion is there because of faith and not every athiest is so because of doubt or disbelief.

In Australia, it hasn't been viewed as necessary to get religion until recently (some sort of virus originating in the US I suppose). In our relatively secular society I've met a few people who have used religion to get acceptance in the social and organisational aspects. You can go a long way in churches without many real skills, qualifications or qualities.

It has been rather eye opening though on atheist sites how many people really want others to accept exactly the same set of ideas they have and turn nasty when it's pointed out that atheism isn't creed or dogma based. There are some very nasty responses from people who hold definite views and I'd use the term "poser" for these.

As soon as I discover a person expects others to follow some moral or ethical rule or they try to portray their superiority by claiming they are offended by some action I know they are more interested in a power play than discussing ideas. Over time I've given up trying to debate/argue with them and hope they'll eventually realise it's the lack of rigid attitudes which unites atheists and crawl under a rock(altar) somewhere.

Being told I shouldn't even be a member of AN because I mentioned those with belief in the supernatural, metaphysical and all the other permutations mumbo jumbo of shouldn't join was interesting. I am amazed at the passion the poser atheist has when they launch into a tirade.

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Permalink Reply by Jezzy on July 11, 2010 at 8:36am

This reminds me of my other Australian friend-- I was completely dumbfounded by the conversation we had, in which he said that although he had no real religion, he didn't like to identify with Atheists because apparently in Aus they're the majority, quite pushy and think they own the world. He made it sound like the religious origins I came from were just flipped in the favor of Atheists!

Everyone wants to be on the "right" side, but as soon as you think you've gotten there, you can make the same mistakes as your rivals...

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Permalink Reply by Jezzy on July 11, 2010 at 9:22am

"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." - Andre Gide

Not to make some sort of quote-off, but I particularly like that thought.

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Permalink Reply by Heather Natale on July 12, 2010 at 12:43am

Exactly so Phil. There really is no "right" side, just people who believe what they think is correct and true. I try to never slam theists or pagans for their beliefs, even though I don't agree. I used to be both after all.

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Permalink Reply by Alex Catgirl on July 11, 2010 at 9:40am

That's the nature of power, "right" and "wrong" have very little to do with it, they are used to justify why those with power have it, oh and "right"/"wrong" and even "fair" more often than not are arbitrary concepts.

"Fair" to *whom*?

I'm amazed that out of all the possible choices, many atheists choose to adopt the religious dullards ethics. What exactly makes humility "good" and pushy "bad"? It's a matter of perspective, if you are a powerless nobody whose fate is having their face pressed up against their betters shoe/boot heel, humility and compassion are really good traits to advocate for, if it's you are the one pressing down on the heel? Not so much, I have to give up power for the betterment of someone I'd rather see dead.

Don't forget, it takes a lot of effort to keep that heel where it is, I don't dare let my enemy up as they are going to attempt to retaliate, but by having to constantly keep my foot on their face, I'm as much their prisoner as they are mine.

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Permalink Reply by funk Q on July 12, 2010 at 1:35am

in Aus they're the majority, quite pushy and think they own the world.

It may be the people he mixes with. As a rule religion is seldom discussed and atheism far less. The ultra religious are viewed as strange and the moderates as Maybe it's generational or geographical.

I also think some who may claim they've rejected belief in gods haven't realised that's only the begining. It takes a bit more thinking to conclude that religion, then all other forms of faith based superstitions and metaphysics and, in my case, every concept, has no reality.

For some people it's fine to just declare they have no faith then get on with life but it's the ones who make the claim yet still insist on holding onto old beliefs in absolutes and rigid rules, then try to tell others what to do and how to act, who become the posers. I think one "definite" about atheism is it lacks structure so every person becomes responsible for their views and acts.

It isn't so much about right and wrong sides it's about throwing away excess baggage and freeing yourself of conditioned thinking. I regard people who find atheism as making a transition and, as in every transition, there are stages of stop and go, some people though want to act as butterflies while they're still pupating. They end up damaging their wings and become fodder.

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Permalink Reply by Dale on July 11, 2010 at 3:36pm

It is interesting that you point out the choice of "the religious dullards ethics." I like the phrase and I plan to keep it. I think part of it happens to be due to the time frame in which one is to decide on personal ethics during development. I have a book on Childhood Development, but I will go with my own gut instinct on this one. I would have to say that many of the religious ethics that are taught around a child and in the society of one are likely to be, for the most part, adopted by many children due to the amount of contact with them and the general agreeableness in which people receive and respond to those ethics. It might also be why for people like me, when we got old enough to realize what hypocrisy was we became angered with the general state of affairs for many people, including ourselves. Mankind loves its double standards, "Do as I say, not as I do."

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