Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Richard ∑wald on April 8, 2012 at 2:53am

"Where do you get your innate sense of morality from. Do you not have some guiding principle?"

Are you a theist?

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Permalink Reply by John Major on April 8, 2012 at 7:07am

I'm not a theist and never really have been. You think we are born with moral values? I have tried to explain what why moral values were. They are to promote well being and to reduce or avois unnecessary death and suffering. I was wondering if your had any like way you lived your life?

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Permalink Reply by booklover on April 7, 2012 at 6:12pm

I do feel guilty about eating meat.  I just do.  I plan to become a vegetarian in the future. I know I should do it now.  My Mom is a vegan, and hasn't eaten meat in over 10 years.

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Permalink Reply by Richard ∑wald on April 7, 2012 at 6:38pm

You may want to read atheist blogger Richard Carrier's Meat Not Bad first.

The vegetarian/vegan guilt mongering is not that different from theist's appeal to "____" fallacies that, hopefully most here can already see right through.

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Permalink Reply by John Major on April 8, 2012 at 2:29am

Richard I did read through it and found it skimmed over the animal suffering part. It don't really get to grips with that issue. SOunded like self-justification to me.

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Permalink Reply by John Major on April 8, 2012 at 2:21am

I'd be interested to know why you feel the guilt. What are your ethical/moral thoughts.

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Permalink Reply by matthew greenberg on April 7, 2012 at 8:37pm

Thanks. It was helpful to me.

I share many of your thoughts but found it difficult (unusually) to put it into words. I was thinking about this earlier today, and it turns out that most if not all of us do many things others might find morally repugnant. I believe in global warming yet I don't drive a hybrid. I throw away enough food for many families to exist on. I'm sure there are plenty more examples. No one is perfect. Nor should we be expected to be.

Yet the sense I get from Vegans is that they are morally superior, as though they don't share in the rest of humanity's flaws. At least that seems to be what I've read here. When it comes to my carnivorous ways, I don't feel guilt. Most primates are omnivorous, so its completely biological to desire meat. Good for those that have apparently evolved beyond that. I have not.

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Permalink Reply by John Major on April 8, 2012 at 2:36am

@Matthew Greenburg

 

"Most primates are omnivorous, so its completely biological to desire meat"

 

Are you saying that it is permissable to do anything that a primate does? Thet do kill each other you know? The point is we are more intelligent than primates and can make rational and ethical choices.

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Permalink Reply by matthew greenberg on April 8, 2012 at 8:29am

We kill each other too. As Tim Minchin says "we're just fucking monkeys in shoes..."

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Permalink Reply by John Major on April 8, 2012 at 8:55am

So do you think it is ethical to kill each other?

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Permalink Reply by matthew greenberg on April 8, 2012 at 9:07am

Seriously?

Earlier I asked you if you would eat meat if they didn't suffer, to which you replied no. Why is that? I'd really like to know.

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Permalink Reply by Dogly on April 8, 2012 at 9:21am

All each animal has is his life.  In addition to not wanting to cause physical and emotional suffering, I also do not wish to steal someone's life from him.  How would I like to be killed?  I would not.  Just as it would be against my ethics to kill a human, and for the very same reasons, I would not kill a different kind of animal.

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