As An Atheist Can Your Life Have Purpose and Meaning?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by GOD'aye on March 4, 2013 at 6:40am

Far more purpose than a Theist's life will ever have.

You have a free will and can make your purpose whatever you want it to be and having this purpose in itself will give your life meaning.  

Even if this purpose is to simply upset religious folks and destroy their religion in order to make the world a better place.

Devout theists all only have the exact same ultimate aim and purpose, to be mindless sycophantic servants to their divine usurper.

Thus theists really don't have any individual purpose, except to be brown nosed suckers.

Your life, purpose and it's meaning have much more significance than theirs.

Aye M8!  :-D-

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Permalink Reply by GOD'aye on March 4, 2013 at 6:43am

Upsetting theists and demoralizing them and destroying their arrogant self-image seems to be the only thing I'm doing well at the moment. Guess I'd better concentrate more on my actual career.
Though demoralizing theists is fun!

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Permalink Reply by GOD'aye on March 4, 2013 at 6:47am

Yes Steph: There is ultimately no purpose in being a sheep, a mindless servant of god. That's not a worthwhile purpose, it has no real meaning and it cannot even really be called A LIFE!
Theists essentially don't have a life of their own.
Atheists DO!

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Permalink Reply by Steph S. on March 4, 2013 at 7:03am

I agree theists are sheep and are servants to myth and superstition - that's no life at all. It's a life based on fairy tales. I agree completely GOD'aye.

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Permalink Reply by ha7237 on March 4, 2013 at 9:45am

As a theist, can your life have a purpose with a nonexistent god ?

Purpose. What does that even mean? What does it mean to have purpose? Forests provides breathable air.Fruits get eaten. Sedintary plants make it possible for other life to survive. However, does it have to be its purpose? Can't we cut the forest down for nice tables, or use the fruir as props in modern art?

If I will it, my purpose can be to live or be happy at my meager paycheck.The idea of purpose, is the idea of being needed. It is egotistical craving. I have no purpose, and do not long for one.

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Permalink Reply by JP Carey on March 5, 2013 at 10:03am

Here's an excerpt from the Orderism website that I'm bringing this year.  It is specifically about purpose and meaning.  Orderism agrees with the Nihilists to a point, that we were simply a happy accident.  There was no direction, but there was a progression, and now that we are cognitive there CAN be a direction.

The 3 Purposes of Life

To say that there may be a purpose to life, a reason that we’re all here as if we had some job to do, is incorrect if you come from a naturalist position.  Naturalist and many others would be quick to point out that “purpose & meaning” are very human constructs that only exist in our minds. Just like the issue with “good & bad”.  Since we came about from natural causes, and that nature is essentially mindless, then there can be no ‘reason’ for us to be here.  We just are.

Orderism accepts the fact that for the most part there was no reason or purpose for any of us humans to be here.  A cosmic happening is all that is was.  But Orderism does make two exceptions to this absolute notion.  

The first is the idea that an ‘observer’ may be necessary for reality to exist.  In the strangeness of quantum mechanics, scientist have discovered that having someone physically watch certain experiments can affect reality itself.  From this, some have construed that the observer may be a very important part of reality.  A sort of “if a tree falls in the wood -and there’s no one around, does it make a sound?” situation.  It is a real situation however and it points to a reason for us to be here: That reason would be to observe the universe around us.

The second idea of reason and purpose is that although there may be no reason for us being here, the situation has recently changed with the arrival of our cognitive mental abilities.  Yes, we were not made by anyone for any purpose, but now, now we can make our own purpose and our own reasons for being here.  It’s quite wonderful really that we were nothing, and now we are something.  


From our view that we humans are evolving from simple animals to something more, and from the possibility that life has an affect on reality, we draw Orderism’s 3 purposes of life.

1. The Animalistic Purpose
The first purpose is the same purpose that most every animal feels in some way.  That is to breed and raise the young to survivability.  We must again point out that animals do not have a ‘purpose’, only people do.  Therefore we should rephrase what we mean when we say it here.  Animals have an instinct and an imperative urge to reproduce and protect the young in whatever degree that suits them.  The Orderists would say that if this reiteration behavior was not ingrained into the generations, the population of this animal would falter and fail.  It is the reiteration and feedback of the system that allows it to flourish.

The animalistic purpose is also the lowest of the 3.  It means we have the same purpose (imperative urge) that all mammals do.  The same urge that a cow has.  It is easy to see that some people blindly follow that urge and they claim it brings them much joy.


2. Your Big Brain Purpose
The second purpose may be the highest of the 3.  Yes, we were once mere animals and now we are not.  With the abilities of our new big brains came a torrent of benefits and problems all at once.  Unknown that it is probably the greatest of problems was when we could finally ask ourselves “Why am I here? What should I be doing?”.

There is a big quest to find ‘the meaning of life’, and the truth is there probably isn’t just one meaning of life, and there probably isn’t any meaning to it at all.  No meaning - it just is.  

Some would take this as there is no meaning in anything that we do, and therefore we should be able to do whatever the hell we want to do.  What can we think of a person with this perspective.  A person with no boundries of conduct other than to keep themselves out of jail.  It is a perfectly fine perspective for that individual, and they may even be a just person.  However, others looking at this boundless person notice the lack of boundaries and his pitiable outlook.  

Now comes the answer to this greatest of problems, “why am I here?”.  Here it is:  You are free to choose a purpose.  It can be any purpose that is meaningful to you.  If you follow that purpose, you will be on the path to a happy life.  If your purpose is “good” and helps or affects others positively, then the meaning to your life skyrockets.

When we talk about the meaning to a life, it is not the same as purpose.  The same arguments apply, meaning is human construct and not real.  Purpose adds value to your life, meaning adds value to the lives around you.

3. Witness, Experience, Build the Fantastic
What’s amazing is that we are here at all.  Think about it, the unimaginably huge universe could have been sitting here for all of it’s billions and billions years with nothing or no one to see it.  There didn’t have to be life -or did there?  Remember the talk about reality needing an observer.  How true that may be, is yet to be seen, but we can draw these conclusions.  Either life had to be here so that it could observe the universe, and the property of self organization has brought us here. Or we’re just that lucky that we’re here to observe the universe.  Either way, we each are here for just a brief bit, and it is precious.  Your job may just be to take in whatever wonders you may find both in the small scale and large.  Our lifetimes may just be the flickering candlelight of the consciousness of the universe.  A universe that’s trying to become aware of itself.  

---------------------------------------------------------

It's still a work in progress.

purpose #1 is the lowest of purposes and really only "counts" if you're only an animal

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Permalink Reply by Tom Reeves on March 5, 2013 at 12:01pm

Hi John,

First, thanks for putting this out there. Displaying one’s philosophy open for comment can be daunting.

Some initial thoughts, for what they’re worth:

The alteration of the wave/particle duality in quantum mechanics does not require a human (or living) observer.  Also, there is a significant difference between how quantum physics works versus the physics of large bodies. No scientific explanation has yet reached a consensus to explain this difference that I am aware of.

Trees do indeed make a sound (causing a wave of oscillating pressure through the air), even if humans are not around to perceive those pressure differences with our ear drums – unless by definition you insist sound is only sound if heard by human ears.

You write, “Animals don’t have a purpose, only people do.” According to evolution, humans are just one species of animal on this planet. At what point in our evolution did we evolve the ‘purpose’ gene? If you confine purpose to humans only, it seems that you are defining the word as something along the lines of: only creatures capable of contemplating their purpose can have a purpose.

“…the true utility function of life, that which is being maximized in the natural world, is DNA survival.” – Dawkins: River out of Eden (1996) This may not seem like much of a reason to get up in the morning, but it seems to be what you're trying to get at when you say, “No meaning – [life] just is.”

You have some positive, feel good platitudes - follow a path that’s purposeful to you and helps others – but for me, there’s not enough substance to this philosophy to generate much enthusiasm.

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Permalink Reply by JP Carey on March 5, 2013 at 12:40pm

I DO appreciate the feedback.  I am aware of the science stated above and it doesn't conflict with anything said (as I see it).  -You're right.  The point is to accept ALL of what reason and science are telling us, our BEST assumption of how things work, and CHOOSE our response -that's the beauty of position: cognitive and aware.

There is a progression, I say direction (now), to this life. 

There is only 3 positions to take after that...

1. You can be part of the growing "order" or complexity
   
   
2. You can fight or sabotage the growing "order" or complexity
   
   
3. You can stay put and have the decision made for you.

I'm an ATHEIST, but that's not exactly a great position.  The question is what DO you believe in.  

There is no need for us to be here. -Except for the self organization principle -the order that springs from chaos when the numbers are tweaked just a bit.  Evolution is a prime example of the self organization principle.

Viktor Frankl said that either all life has meaning, or none of it does.  We already choose that it does, when suicide is not an option (yet). 

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Allan H. Clark on March 5, 2013 at 1:12pm

>>The first is the idea that an ‘observer’ may be necessary for reality to exist.  In the strangeness of quantum mechanics, scientist have discovered that having someone physically watch certain experiments can affect reality itself.

You haven't been specific about the effect you are describing, but these are interpretations of scientific statements, not scientific statements themselves. For example, the notion that an observer may be necessary for reality to exist is not something that can be verified by experimental means—it's an interpretation, and, I think, a false one.

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Permalink Reply by JP Carey on March 5, 2013 at 1:27pm

On my mobile now, gotta work. I refer to that popular "double slit" experiment where photons shot through 2 slots act as a wave until an observer (or camera) watches it closely - then the photons act as particals.

There was an "or" in my text. Or or or, either the observer is required OR its still incredible that we're here to observe.

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Allan H. Clark on March 5, 2013 at 2:21pm

 I refer to that popular "double slit" experiment where photons shot through 2 slots act as a wave until an observer (or camera) watches it closely - then the photons act as particals.

That is not an accurate description of the double slit experiment. Individual particles—photons, electrons, etc.—in the double slit experiment are always observed as particles. However, with both slits open, after many particles pass through and are registered on a photographic plate, an interference pattern slowly emerges. You can see it happening in this YouTube video: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdnL_S4qdTU

There are many variations on the double slit experiment and there are certainly non-intuitive aspects of the phenomena, but before interpreting the results in metaphysical ways, the first thing is to get a clear idea of what happens in the classical experiment.

When detectors are added to determine which slit the particles go through, the interference pattern is no longer observed and the expected double bar is seen. This has led to the idea that observing influences what happens and seemed to verify Bohr's complementarity principle, but a recent experiment in 2012 preserved the interference pattern while detecting the pass-through slit:

http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/05/disentangling-the-wave-parti...

In any case it doesn't matter whether the "observer" is conscious or not, the results are the same.

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Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo on March 5, 2013 at 3:07pm

Steph! You hit the jackpot! I have never seen a thread with 4,099 responses before. And such compelling and profound responses. You have the raw material for a book. Let me know when it is finished, I want to buy a copy. 

Odd experience, I have not had notification of many of these responses and discover I had the "Stop Following" button pushed. Bummer. Well, I shall have a great time starting at the beginning and reading them all. 

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