Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by T.A.D. Tijerina on August 8, 2012 at 8:58am

Of course. There's so many different things in life to invest your time and energy into. Pick one according to your interest, and make it something that you really care about.

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Permalink Reply by Steph S. on August 8, 2012 at 11:42am

Thank you T.A.D for your reply.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on August 9, 2012 at 1:20am

"...make it something that you really care about."

So very true, T.A.D., but can you imagine a male reasoning himself to something he really cares about?

He might trip over it, and if he's sober he might recognize what he tripped over. But reason his way to it?

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Permalink Reply by T.A.D. Tijerina on August 9, 2012 at 9:29am

I'm sorry. I tried to make sense of your reply but tripped over a little piece of misandry on the ground, which is a little confusing seeing as how you're male yourself. If it's really true that men are incapable of recognizing what they care about, then what explanation can there be for your reply? Surely there's a story in your personal history that caused you to perceive a particular stimulus in my comment to inspire such a response. That shows you care about something. What it is I don't know, and my part in this is unintentional, but it's clear you do care about something.

Some men might have trouble deciding what they care about but I don't. I know I like music, books, photography and charity work, and I spend a significant portion of my time pursuing these interests on my own and with others. I did not have to reason my way to these interests because when it comes to the things you like, you rarely have to use reason unless the thing you like is detrimental to yourself or to others. You start with instinct and then later learn to discern a meaning behind the things you like, much the same way that you read an innocuous comment on Atheist Nexus and then discern a meaning behind it, even if that meaning is entirely a product of your own reasoning and not the author's.

So you see, Tom, though males might not be very adept at understanding what other males are going on about, they are in fact capable of recognizing what they themselves care about. Savvy?

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Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on August 10, 2012 at 2:15am

Yeah, T.A.D., I dropped a bit of what a man with thinner skin than I might call misandry, and you, both sober and clever, tripped over it.

A bit of male humor partly explains it: "Why do men talk about war? It's the only time women take us seriously."

However, I didn't say men are incapable of recognizing what we care about; I said we might not reason our ways to it.

What in your comment inspired my response?

Your words, "Pick [a thing in life....] according to your interest"

After nine years in college following my interests (math, science, and a bit of law), I stumbled into a computer machinery class intended for school employees. It inspired me to enter graduate school. After writing a couple of computer programs to solve math problems I asked my professor, "People will pay me to do this?" A company in my home town made me an offer, I left school and lived a most happy life.

The woman I married had a somewhat similar experience; she told people she taught for free and took the money for getting up in the morning.

Recognition is easy; reason leads many men astray.

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Permalink Reply by T.A.D. Tijerina on August 10, 2012 at 4:21am

"I said we might not reason our ways to it."
I never suggested that people reason their way to it. You brought it up. In fact, I explained why reason has little to do with deciding what you like.

 

"After nine years in college following my interests (math, science, and a bit of law), I stumbled into a computer machinery class intended for school employees. It inspired me to enter graduate school. After writing a couple of computer programs to solve math problems I asked my professor, "People will pay me to do this?" A company in my home town made me an offer, I left school and lived a most happy life. The woman I married had a somewhat similar experience; she told people she taught for free and took the money for getting up in the morning."

And how was all that not pursuing things that interest you? Okay, so you had detours but you were still pursuing what interested you.

"Recognition is easy; reason leads many men astray."

What are you expecting in life? That you set your aim on an objective and for there to be no deviations from the course you set? You enter college at 18 with certain expectations, you graduate and may or may not find a job that's actually relevant to your degree, you may or may not like the career for which you studied and trained for, you may or may not end up working in a line much different from the one you started with - that's life.

 

Notice that while you attach purpose and meaning to your career, I don't. I'm just not the sort of person who defines his existence through work. The way I see it, the economy is ever changing and the work I prefer to have might one day be unavailable to me or I might one day decide I want to do something else, so I attach meaning to pursuits that aren't work-related. You find purpose in work, I find purpose in hobbies and activities, so again we find ourselves at my original suggestion: "Pick [a thing] in life according to your interest."

 

Anything else?

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Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on August 10, 2012 at 6:56pm

T.A.D., your assumptions differ markedly from my reality.

"You enter college at 18...."

While in HS the law required me to register for the draft. Rather than risk being drafted as a foot soldier, I joined the Naval Reserve. A cousin was the only one in my extended family to go to college; it was not my reality. After HS I worked for a year before a war started in Korea and the government sent me to fight in it. I survived it; the GI Bill made college possible, and at 23 I started.

"...enter college...with certain expectations.... You find purpose in work, I find purpose in hobbies and activities,...."

I expected to have to support a family...that was life then.

In grad school I met a woman whose childhood, like mine, had been unhappy and neither of us wanted children. Happily, we succeeded.

Our realities differ. So do our conclusions.

 

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Permalink Reply by T.A.D. Tijerina on August 10, 2012 at 7:44pm

What is in contention here? Yes, "our realities differ". Yes, and "so do our conclusions". What in my original statement precludes the varying circumstances of people's lives? Does it not factor in those varying circumstances to begin with?

What point are you trying to make, and what point of mine are you trying to refute in all of this:

[ "You enter college at 18...."

While in HS the law required me to register for the draft. Rather than risk being drafted as a foot soldier, I joined the Naval Reserve. A cousin was the only one in my extended family to go to college; it was not my reality. After HS I worked for a year before a war started in Korea and the government sent me to fight in it. I survived it; the GI Bill made college possible, and at 23 I started.

"...enter college...with certain expectations.... You find purpose in work, I find purpose in hobbies and activities,...."

I expected to have to support a family...that was life then.

In grad school I met a woman whose childhood, like mine, had been unhappy and neither of us wanted children. Happily, we succeeded.

Our realities differ. So do our conclusions. ]

 

You speak of things I never mentioned, and you respond to stimuli I never provided. I cannot make any contextual sense of what you say, and if you read your own statements carefully, you will see that you're actually providing examples that illustrate my points. Please go find someone else to recount your life to.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on August 11, 2012 at 12:52am

Okay.

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Permalink Reply by Fidd Chewley on August 9, 2012 at 2:22am

That humans can and inevitably do question the purpose and meaning of their lives is the summit of a mountain from which the rain of action can run down many paths. The rain erodes the mountain until the sky clears and the unique heterogyny of the crag can be seen by all. Each rainfall brings a subtle change to the existing pattern. Ground yourself like rain to the Earth, carve your own path in rock like a flowing stream, and refresh and rehydrate those around you like a pool at the bottom.

Also, sex, drugs, and rock & roll. That too.

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Permalink Reply by Steph S. on August 9, 2012 at 10:00pm

Fidd I just love the imagery in your reply. Like water erodes a mountain and runs down many paths. Beautiful! Thanks!

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Permalink Reply by Fidd Chewley on August 10, 2012 at 2:34am

In retrospect, I think all that figurative language was really in there to justify the use of the neologism "heterogyny".  It's a good thing you appreciate it; I always say, "It takes one to know one"!  (why do people always have to use that phrase as an insult?)

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