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Arguing politics with right wingers is like arguing with creationists

Everything they say is based on beliefs, not evidence.  They seem to have no interest in an honest discussion of the facts.  Instead they hang on to their naive ideologies like "Freedom" and "govt is incapable and corrupt".  I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but sometimes the best solution is a public solution.


For right wingers, the only solution is a capitalistic solution - everything else is "socialist".


Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions on tactics that might get these people to open thier minds just a little bit?

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it should be a civic duty to vote only if you have honestly studied the issues. If you don't understand, don't vote!
Can I get a rAmen?
Oaths are but words
and words are but wind.
- 'n I don't remember who in the hell said it . . . one of those ancient Greek dudes.
I will disagree. If anyone has watched star trek or star wars you can easily see that you can clearly hear in a vacuum. Greek dudes are awesome
Indoctrination is indoctrination no matter what the topic. Many conservatives (I know this-- I live in the "Bible belt"!) spend their time watching Fox which continues to indoctrinate its viewers by feeding their political tendencies, lack of knowledge about the facts of history, and fears about what they cannot control such as the economy. It's a self-fulfilling process and they know exactly what they're doing. It is intentional. The strategy was developed 60 years ago by the Tobacco industry to obscure the facts about the dangers of smoking. They "hire" people with degrees (even if they are not relevant to the issue) to spread doubt and confusion. Presenting these people as "experts" even if they are totally discredited in the world of academia or research (think David Barton). It doesn't matter--- the public can't tell the difference. Then it's the public relations campaign to spread their message and BINGO-- you have a public that is confused and cannot tell what if fact and what is fiction. Thus, trickle down economics-- tax cuts for the wealthy are "good" for us even if they have ALWAYS resulted in deficits. This strategy has now been fully developed to attack the facts about a broad range of conservative and religious issues-- from global warming to evolution, from immigration to the economy, etc. It's all about the management of disinformation and spreading it effectively.
How true . . , but whaddayadotastopit?
Very good Marcy. I believe you nailed it perfectly. Thanks
I have found that most people like this simply can not be reached. If they are strict adherents to an ideology, who willingly and blindly follow others, they lack the capacity to think rationally. There are only a very select few that I have ever encountered with whom you could reason.
I've definitely seen that amongst the hardcore Libertarians, yeah. We've got a few in my local Atheist group who won't allow anything beyond pure, ultimate freedom.

All taxation is theft, and the government should not be allowed to levy taxes. Public schools should be closed in favor of private institutions, who should be allowed to teach whatever they want. Every private citizen should be allowed to own weapons of war, like grenade launchers and cruise missiles. Pure laissez-faire economics is the only system that should be allowed ... so apparently antitrust laws are evil and corporate monopolies are good.

I'm not even exaggerating. they've made every one of those arguments and won't back off an inch. They're fucking insane. It's like they're so blinded by their ideology that they can't see the horrors that their ideals will unleash.
Thank you Ayn Rand!! :)
Can't help you there. There's a wide range of Libertarians, but most of them are nutjobs. There might be one or two of the fringe ideologies that deal with the issues inherent to the main platform, but I haven't had those explained to me.
Well, sure the Ayn Randians are insane, but I generally place them on the right of the political spectrum, support for liberal sex and drug policies notwithstanding. Libertarians are just Republicans that like to stay home from church so they can fuck and get high. It's the permanently adolescent version of right-wingnuttery: "You're not the boss of me!" Of course, they fail to notice that extreme individualism is easy prey for organized authoritarianism, the grown-up version of right-wingnuttery, also known as fascism.

Which is why libertarianism put in practice always devolves immediately into feudalism, and if one warlord gets powerful enough, fascism. Your local warlord (or corporate overlord) will simply force you to swear allegiance or leave you out in the cold to starve (or worse).

Which is why there are no libertarian intellectuals. (Hint: Ayn Rand was the smartest one, and she was an idiot.) They can't count. Gangs are always more powerful than individuals, because they consist of more than one person. Individuals must pool their power in order to get what they want and protect them from predators. This means government is required, and not inherently evil. We know from experience that self-government is better than authoritarian forms. The rest is details, none of which support libertarianism in the slightest.


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