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Arguing politics with right wingers is like arguing with creationists
Everything they say is based on beliefs, not evidence. They seem to have no interest in an honest discussion of the facts. Instead they hang on to their naive ideologies like "Freedom" and "govt is incapable and corrupt". I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but sometimes the best solution is a public solution.
For right wingers, the only solution is a capitalistic solution - everything else is "socialist".
Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions on tactics that might get these people to open thier minds just a little bit?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jason Spicer on -
coffekraken, I agree that the wooful on the left are frustrating as hell. Deepak Chopra, Jenny McCarthy, etc, etc, are really screwing with people. But I think there is a fundamental difference between the left and the right when it comes to fairness. It's hard to imagine a left-wing Karl Rove. The right just doesn't seem to give a fuck about the rules as long as they win. The left seems to love rules and is eternally holding themselves back rather than cross ethical lines. They're just not as Machiavellian.
Yes, there have been plenty of crooks on the left, from political machines to ballot stuffing to taking bribes to trying to sell senate seats. But the crimes on the left seem much more petty to me than the crimes on the right. They are generally more about making a personal profit. The crimes on the right tend to be more ideological in nature and breathtaking in scope, like starting an unnecessary war in Iraq, Swiftboating opponents, dismantling regulatory frameworks for corporate buddies, hiring for loyalty to a person rather than loyalty to the Constitution, etc. -
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Permalink Reply by Jim DePaulo on -
Bill,
unregulated capitalism milks every last cent out of old ideas... During Dem admins R&D kicks back into full swing because the well has run dry and the cycle needs to begin again.
I think you are right – but the cause is more a function of the trickle down myth (the favorite of the republicans) than with who happens to be in office or control of congress at the time. The key is where the Marginal tax rate on the wealthiest sits. When the rate is high the government has a higher revenue; however, the real gain is how the money flows through the society at large. Holders of the wealth tend to eschew profits taking which would be heavily taxed. Instead they put profits into tax sheltered areas such as R&D, new equipment, new products, new facilities and increased hiring – areas that increase tangible wealth and make money more fluid within society. (which is the true goal of capitalism)
OTOH, when the marginal rate is low it encourages profit taking, as the penalty for doing so is low, and moving it into the speculative market of stocks, commodities and real estate. This influx of money drives stocks and commodities into an upward spirals creating bubbles which ultimate crash or wreak havoc on the most economically vulnerable. The oil spikes a few years back, Goldman's speculation on food commodities which starved thousands in the third world, the housing speculation which ruined the lives of 100's of thousands of families, the S&L explosion in the 80's were all products of this process.
The assertion is that the increase money available to the top will trickle down to the peasants. (trickling down sounds like being pissed and is probably more accurate) In fact the exact reverse occurs.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Spicer on
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All correct, Jim, and don't forget the energy market speculation that drove up oil and eletricity costs, and the ridiculous fear of non-existent inflationary pressure that kept interest rates too low for far too long. I happen to think that the 90% top marginal tax rates under Eisenhower were extreme, but the current top rate is just too low. Worse, there are way too many loopholes for the wealthiest to shelter their income.
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Permalink Reply by Patricia Plunkett on -
Just because one doesn't own an American citizenship doesn't mean they are beneath American intelligence. The Last couple of comments are arrogant b.s. Just because one comes from Australia or any other country is no way of defining their character, the remarks were racist nothing more nothing less. Felch has every right to comment, with out being ridiculed. I have come across this in many of the American comments and it makes me so angry. I have many American friends, but if they treated me as some ignorant imbecile they would not be friends for long. Argue the facts of the comments not deride his country of birth.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Spicer on
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Patricia, the comments about Felch were sort of inside humor. Bill and Fred are friends with Felch. And he gives as good as he gets. Neither Fred nor Bill would ever accuse Felch of being ignorant. Often prickly and grumpy, but I think they'd agree that he usually knows what he's talking about.
As to the Australian thing, many of us Americans on A|N stand in awe that Australia just swore in an openly atheist prime minister. A lot of us would like to move to Australia at the moment.
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Permalink Reply by Meddlesome on -
I for one would never move back to Australia.
Too many low-brow morons.
The pay is low, the taxes high.
You are at the arse end of the world.
The accent sounds like everyone has had a stroke.
The women are mostly bimbos, the blokes thick as two bricks.
The environment is getting progressively trashed so that it is becoming unfarmable.
Oh, and the lifestyle sucks for anyone with fair skin like mine...
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Permalink Reply by Jason Spicer on
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Now, Bill, the original gene pool for all of us includes Neanderthals. And Meddlesome, I like the accent. As to the environment, yes, Australia is "mining its environmental capital" to use the words of Jared Diamond from his book Collapse. That's bad news, but they are finally waking up to that and changing policies.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Spicer on
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Yeah, I'm just saying that I don't think Teh Dumbness lies in our genes so much. Our jeans, maybe.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Spicer on
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More the $400 designer jeans, I think.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Vogt on -
For right wingers, the only solution is a capitalistic solution - everything else is "socialist".
That's a much more recent blather-bolt from the right. It's a style that has become much more mainstream on both ends of the political spectrum.
Take an idea, and trim it down into as few syllables as possible. Three seems to be about the max. Examples include, but are in now way limited to:
socialist
war-monger
muslim
fundie
tree-hugger
corporate stooge
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Permalink Reply by Jason Spicer on
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Hey, don't forget "commie nazi".
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