Hello, I have been wanting to get this off of my chest for a while.
Richard Dawkins together with other "Great" atheists (Hitchens, are commonly seen as the "Leaders" of atheism. Everywhere i turn people rally behind them without hesitation. I have no problem with agreeing with someone and supporting them, but since joining this site and communicating with atheists across the web i am sad to say that I have been pressured into supporting anything they (or other popular atheists) say or do. As you can tell from the title, I don't like them, I find most of the current big time atheist to be rude, harsh, condescending, arrogant, men who happen to be smart. They spout the word "evidence" but as far as i can tell, only use evidence that supports their own views. They are incredibly anti-theist outright insulting those with faith, while i do not like religion I would never dream of telling someone that one way of thinking is correct or insulting them for their beliefs. For the most part they are BRILLIANT scientists, and yet they completely discredit anything if it has the slightest lack of extraordinary evidence or if a religious person says it. I may be wrong, but isn't science about looking for the truth, accepting new ideas and testing them, admitting when you are wrong? Isn't science meant to be unbiased? "A sentient all-powerful being/force, that existed before the rest of the universe, willingly and with intent created the universe and continues to exist beyond normal perception interacting with the universe regularly and still with intent." okay, there might be many many MANY variations on that principle, but that is the premise of a lot of religions, Laughable? Yes. Incredibly unlikely? Yes. Goes against massive amounts of par-to-quality evidence? Yes. But it's still a scientific hypothesis, that as of writing this cannot be tested. As such It should be accepted as a possible if-unlikely truth until it can be (dis)proven. We have diss-proven many things that religion spouts or claims in their holy books, but that is disproving an element of the religion, not the existence of a god. Dawkins has admitted this, yet he continuously dismisses any arguments against his views unless they come from one of his fellow atheist scientist buddies.
Ted Haggard, remember him? Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM4bq9ypAdY
Yeah, he was probably putting on an act for the cameras, we only saw 3 minutes of him, described by himself. But you should be able to understand what he's saying.
And there is truth to it.
That is a brief summary of the problems i have with Dawkins and a lot of the other atheist "leaders". But the reason i'm posting this is the rest of the atheist community seems fine with agreeing with everything he/they say(s). I've been delving into physics lately, and i try to apply one thing i do agree with dawkins on, I can't believe what i read in a book, or the website tells me, or etc. I try to avoid making claims about topics i don't know all about, I try to remain skeptical towards new ideas until i can get evidence that has quality and quantity, I ask questions and don't take things at face value. These are things i truely support, but It seems to me I'm the only atheist that feels that way. i have been observing and found that athesim is becoming almost as dogmatic and cruel as religion.
Anti-theism is on the rise, hatred is cast onto anyone who so much as prays at a dinnertable, if someone is a religious person expect them to be hated and ridiculed by this community regardless of anything other than the fact that they have a religion. Entire forums are set up for the purpose of laughing at religious people and ations (not just the extremist/fundy ones that are okay to laugh at sometimes)
People are mindlessly throwing out arguments that are often little more than: "X is wrong because there's ZERO evidence for it, but Y!, Y has evidence so it must be correct!" never going into any detail about the topic.
People are doing what i described earlier, dimissing things unfairly, while parading around a sliver of something they support.
The "Leaders" are followed blindly, mimicking a cult. if dawkins says something he is agreed with unconditionally by almost everyone, and if you are one of the few who don't agree with it, you are insulted and targeted for all sorts of things (Personal experience)
And everywhere people are trying to convert others into atheism.
A dogma is beginning to form, the atheist that i have observed are lining up to become just like the hardcore religious peoples they claim to be different from.
I joined this site and others with the expectation that I was going to meet people guided by logic, reason, quality evidence (Not just normal evidence.) instead of other's words. and mild = tolerance toward opposing viewpoints as we have nothing to lose if they disagree.
Instead i have found a group of self righteous, key phrase spewing, intolerant, hateful, followers who actively try to change a person's beliefs instead of presenting the alternative and letting that person act accordingly to what they are presented (the backbone of scientific thought and progress)
I could go into more detail, but honestly I'm tired as all get-out. In this post I stress that i am not talking about YOU or anyone else in particular, just what i have found. I posted this to voice my opinion about the current state of atheism, in a great tide of identical arguments and opinions I am standing out with one of my own that i am not basing off of any one Else's; it is an opinion that i came to by myself free of other's forcing it on me. Isn't that what free thought is all about?
Feel free to respond however you like, You can even go ahead and insult me and dismiss everything i said, just as i expect most will. I just wanted to get that off my chest.
Somewhat related note: I think I'm the only atheist with an opinion like this; the supernatural and paranormal science that studies it. Legitamit fields of study, even if the methods are frequently terrible. I think that some supernatural elements might just be natural elements that we just don't understand yet. (A long time ago, the concept of cold eluded the minds of of the time and was considered supernatural, but of course now we understand the absence of heat and can explain its workings.) I'm not saying all supernatural claims are true, just that they should not be dismissed immidiatly on the basis that they are considered supernatural. Ghost for example, I believe that there is somethting to these claims, or at least some of them. Consistent and observable patterns, large amounts of unexplained, undeniable phenomenon (Among some admittedly fake). Are they the spirits of the dead? I doubt it, but I see reason to look into the matter. The same goes for some other supernatural ideas that everyone here seems to hate.
And finally, I have a very difficult time getting behind Dawkin's precious gene-centered evolution.
sure, thing matthew. You've never seen him describe religion? Or debate someone? You can see how he's filled with hatred when discussing these things. If you don't think so, that's fine too. Makes not a fuck to me. here's a video of him getting pissy:
you're right Sir, i saw the steam coming out of his ears and foam coming out of his mouth. he sure was fired up. i can't believe he threw a chair at that nice Christian woman! has he been arrested yet for his tirade?
Yes booklover, seriously. No, biggest problems in the world come from real things like people; not make believe things like religion. And I said it, why are you shocked? Because I formed my own opinion that goes against the ingrained dogmatic atheistic thinking most of you have? Because I refuse to jump on your bandwagon of beliefs? I am my own person who doesn't believe or care about a god, don't toss me in with your loose definition of generic atheism. Have a nice day.
It has obviously escaped your attention that real people really believe in the idea of a personal god and thus support and believe in religion. Take a look at how the divisive aspect of religion has affected the real people of Isreal, Ireland, the Balkans etc etc.
You have formed an opinion ? really ? mind telling us what it is rather than indulge your self in chidlike insults.
maybe you're too stupid to read what I wrote jeremy. I don't know, just guessing. My opinion is that real things like people cause problems, not the make believe religions(and I wrote this before, check above.) Rather than saying religion is the cause of these problems in these places, why don't you fucking notice that no matter what people believe this is happening all over the world like it always has? And I like to indulge myself, it makes me tingle inside.
You obviously do like to indulge your self but you have just as obviously lost the ability to think ( if indeed you ever possessed the ability)
Perhaps you could at least try to address the real problems that religion has caused in those geo-political hotspots that I ponted out to you
thanks for ignoring where I pointed out the flaw in your thinking jeremy. Stop focusing on the religion and realize it is people that are doing these things no matter what they believe. All different beliefs, but these people do the same thing. That's not striking to you? No, or course not; let's just blame someone's belief. Yeah, that's better.
This will be my final post to to you. I am ignoring you because you are not worth the effort of formulating a reply and shall continue to ignore you whenever you appear here
if you care so little about your lack of belief, why are you a member on this site? you sound like a religious troll, honestly. calling Melinda (booklover) dogmatic is about the silliest thing i've read on this site. you know nothing about her and you choose to attack her one comment here as being some blind Atheist believer? grow up.
Because I like the chat. Firstly, fuck you. Secondly, you are fucking stupid for saying what you did about me calling someone dogmatic. here's a link to the definition of dogmatic, read it:http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dogmatic.
What you said about me being a reliogus troll, you make me laugh fuck-o! And you talk about me attacking someone based on a comment and I need to grow up while you do the exact same thing to me?! Classic dude, classic. You're a schmuck, booklover is a schmuck, and jeremy is a schmuck. I don't agree with most atheists on this and, like the religious, you rally against me! I must be a martyr.
no, you like to be an asshole. i was right to recommend that you grow up. you throw around insults to people you know nothing about - childish. you claim persecution from those in your own group - immature. hell, even your user name indicates some sort of immaturity. you are not interested in having an adult "chat", at least from what i see here. you don't like Dawkins - fine by me. but your rationale and attitude could use some serious adjustment.