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Permalink Reply by LarryL on February 1, 2011 at 3:32pm

Religion, guns, god and "traditional values" are just tools of the republicans to get gullable and otherwise democratic voters to vote against their own best interests.  Every once in a while they attempt to pass a law that addresses these issues, in order to appeal to the gullable, even though they almost always get shot down in the courts or voted down. 

 

Using god to get money goes back a long ways doesn't it?   This is yet another example

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Permalink Reply by MCT on February 1, 2011 at 7:49pm

"From each according to their ability, to those according to their need."

-Karl Marx

This is disgusting.  It's a celebration and fostering of sickness. Shame on pretty much all of you!

Who was it that said, "Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, teach him how to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime." Religious source notwithstanding, I like it. Wealth redistribution grows poverty and hampers productivity. Sure, a bunch of people can agree to give each other their shit and it might appear OK, but, I think, the world is entering a new age of debt and and big-brother,  partly because of this and partly because of religion's endorsement that we are our brother's keeper. Nature does not necessitate that we take care of each other anywhere near as much as it dictates the need to take care of ourselves. It can be very nice to help others, but when forced, it is immoral.

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Permalink Reply by Susan Stanko on February 1, 2011 at 8:07pm

In the constitution it is the Congress' job to promote the general welfare.  Are you saying that cutthroat capitalism achieves that?

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Permalink Reply by MCT on February 1, 2011 at 8:18pm

I am not going to argue the specific merits of the constitution. I didn't write it and I don't study it in detail. I would say that general welfare is not the job of government. Protecting individual's right to be free from the coercion or force of others. And yes, people being free to create products and sell them results in productivity, life and happiness. I'm not saying that laws should not be enacted to protect people in the workplace and in the free market, but government over-site does not create, individuals working does.

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Permalink Reply by Willow on February 2, 2011 at 4:32pm

I think it is the governments job to protect the welfare of all of it's citizens.  Otherwise, big business would exploit every worker in the country and no laws would exist to protect them either.

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Permalink Reply by Susan Stanko on February 2, 2011 at 5:00pm

Which country are you referring to?  If the US, it is in our constitution.

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Permalink Reply by Willow on February 2, 2011 at 5:44pm

I think it is every government  in every countries responsibility to protect their citizens.  But specificly I am from Canada and our government does protect us.

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Permalink Reply by MCT on February 2, 2011 at 9:02pm

Willow,

Not from each other's dependence.

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Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on February 2, 2011 at 5:57pm

I've said this on other threads, but I think its worth repeating here.

the most effective way to view a properly working government would be this.  Imagine you have a horse drawn plow.

The plow is the government.  The horse is the capitalist economy.  the driver is the citizens of the nation.

the plow is used to reap the rewards of the horses power, and to hold the horse back, and direct it.  without a properly sized plow, the horse is under-weighed and hard to control, eventually going to graze where it wants and producing nothing productive for the people.  Too large a plow will overburden the horse and stifle it, wearing it out and killing its ability to work.  the people are needed to make all of this happen, but they must be IN control because if not, the horse will simply pull and leave the fields.  Might I add we want the strongest horse possible if we are to maximize productivity.

 

Right now what I see is a massive horse, a plow so poorly designed that it barely turns the soil, and a non existent operator.  Capitalism is wonderful in the sense it incentivizes growth and expansion, but without proper restrictions it wanders and is no use at all.  

 

Sorry, being called by my love, hopefully this was enough for right now.  who sees what in this situation?

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Permalink Reply by LarryL on February 2, 2011 at 7:20pm

Good analogy, Park, thanks.  The only challenge I have is abuut the "non existent operator" .

 

A more accurate term might be "a misinformed, gullable, ignorant and incompetent operator" 

 

Surely a horse and plow would be more productive with the non-existent operator than the incompetent one. 

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Permalink Reply by LarryL on February 1, 2011 at 8:18pm

A Day in the Life of a True Libertarian

Joe Libertarian wakes up in the morning and goes to the bathroom. He flushes his toilet and brushes his teeth, mindful that each flush & brush costs him about 43 cents to his privatized water provider. His wacky, liberal neighbor keeps badgering the company to disclose how clean and safe their water is, but no one ever finds out. Just to be safe, Joe Conservative boils his drinking water. 

Joe steps outside and coughs--the pollution is especially bad today, but the smokiest cars are the cheapest ones, so everyone buys 'em. Joe Libertarian checks to make sure he has enough toll money for the 3 different private roads he must drive to work. There is no public transportation, so traffic is backed up and his 10 mile commute takes an hour. 

On the way, he drops his 12 year old daughter off at the clothing factory she works at. Paying for kids to go to private school until they're 18 is a luxury, and Joe needs the extra income coming in. Times are hard and there're no social safety nets. 

He gets to work 5 minutes late and misses the call for Christian prayer, and is immediately docked by his employer. He is not feeling well today, but has no health insurance, since neither his employer nor his government provide it, and paying for it himself is really expensive, since he has a precondition. He just hopes for the best. 

Joe's workday is 12 hours long, because there is no regulation over working hours, and Joe will lose his job if he complains or unionizes. Today is an especially bad day. Joe's manager demands that he work until midnight, a 16 hour day. Joe does, knowing that he'll lose his job if he does not. 

Finally, after midnight, Joe gets to pick up his daughter and go home. His daughter shows him the deep cut she got on the industrial sewing machine today. Joe is outraged and asks why she doesn't have metal mesh gloves or other protection. She says the company will not provide it and she'll have to pay for it out of her own pocket. Joe looks at the wound and decides they'll use an over the counter disinfectant and bandages until it heals. She'll have a scar, but getting stitches at the emergency room is expensive. 

His daughter also complains that the manager made suggestive overtures towards her. Joe counsels her to be a "good girl" and not rock the boat, or she'll get fired and they'll be out the income. 

His daughter says she can't wait until she's 18 so she can vote for change or go to the Iraq War. 

They get home and there's a message from his elderly father who can't afford to pay his medical or heating bills. Joe can hear him coughing and shivering. 

Joe turns on the radio and the top story is a proposal in Congress to raise the voting age to 25. A rare liberal opinionator states that it's an attempt to keep power out of the hands of working class Americans. The conservative host immediately quashes him, calling him "a utopian idealist," and agreeing that people aren't mature enough to make good choices until they're at least 25. 

Joe chuckles at the wine-swilling, cheese eating liberal egghead and thinks, "Thank God I live in America where I have freedom!"

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Permalink Reply by MCT on February 1, 2011 at 8:21pm

Arbitrary.

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