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Permalink Reply by Tarquin St John Sh'gn'sty on March 27, 2010 at 5:49am

Believing one has 'the truth' (as in " I'm right and they are wrong") is one the more subtle kinds of bigotry and closed mindedness.


I suspect you may be conflating personal certitude with certainty,a common attitude amongst dogmatic fundamentalists.

I think it's reasonable to argue some believers,such as say new earth creationists and Muslim suicide bombers are living in a state of permanent denial. However, I think it's facile and arrogant to extend that attitude to all believers. Perhaps begin by spending few hours with a Jesuit theologian or even do some reading,of Christian thinkers such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer or John Spong.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Shelby_Spong


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer

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Permalink Reply by Jimmy Eagleton on March 27, 2010 at 1:53pm

Good point, but I've been open to other religious idea's all my life. I've read the bible, even studied the wear and tear out of it. I've studied pretty much every notable theistic theorems and idea's about our creation, because I wanted to rule out all doubt and uncertainty before I accepted Atheistic beliefs. Believe me, I would never heathen-ize myself for trendy purposes, or do so without knowing the transgressions and hopelessness I will find sometimes in life, without a "God" to pray my worries away to, or without a person to tell my beliefs to, under purpose of complete and utter blasphemy.

Certainty is well beyond me, but what I know, especially at my age baffles me, and others as well. Trust me, dogmatic fundamentalism is not how I insure myself. I just WANT to know the truth, to say the least. But until I do know, this is the truth for me. I'm still very open minded to other ideas, I just haven't conceived any.

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Permalink Reply by Objection on March 27, 2010 at 2:35pm

I've always found that people who spout "I have the truth! I have the truth!" are the most erroneous and naive people. Generally, the more you advertise yourself as being something, the more suspicious I am, that you're not. I often see christian and muslim channels on youtube with "truth" in their names. I see Fox News spouting that they are "fair & balanced" (nothing could be further than the truth). You have "the truth"? Then show me some evidence of why you have the truth - and after I've listened to them, I realize why they so strongly, and preemptively declare their truthiness in the first place - because they can't prove themselves.

On the other hand, I'd like it if you succeeded in forming a group of freethinkers. Maybe you could start on social networking sites, like Facebook.
Someone else probably knows how to deal with the biased school authorities. Anyone?
In my opinion, the school will probably give you a headache if you try this. Students may not want to stand out of the crowd (they may just want to fit in). You can join or form a secular group in college, however!
Have you heard of the Secular Student Alliance? Perhaps they're active around your community. They're not, around my college, oddly enough :/

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Permalink Reply by Adia Lynette on March 28, 2010 at 7:04pm

I agree 100%, Objection.

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Permalink Reply by Kendall Lutz Crocombe on June 10, 2010 at 1:56am

Do you not think atheism is the truth?

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Permalink Reply by Objection on June 10, 2010 at 2:14am

I think it is, but from a theist's point of view, I might be repelled by atheists that tout that they have the truth. All I meant was, tone the "truth" message down, and bring out the evidence and arguments.

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Permalink Reply by Laura on March 28, 2010 at 9:31am

Does your school have other religious organizations that meet together at the school or sanctioned by the school? If so, you should talk to your principle or other administrator about organizing a group of free thinkers. Try not to be offensive about the whole thing. They are not allowed to discriminate based on religion so if the atheist group is not allowed, then it may be time to call the NAACP... But you might be surprised by the tolerance you receive if your approach is respectful and well thought out.

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Permalink Reply by Johnsky on March 28, 2010 at 10:38am

Woah there.

The "truth"?
Thems converting words.

Careful what your plan is here... creating a group for a purpose of converting people will make you no better than the religious. Atheism is a realization for most, a realization that religion has been lying to them. A realization they make on their own.

Attract people of similar views, sure.
But be careful your intent isn't to turn yourself into a non-theistic version of the very people we grow tired of.

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Permalink Reply by Jimmy Eagleton on March 28, 2010 at 3:52pm

Yeah, maybe my wording was a bit mocking to theism.
Well it was. hehee....

But anyway, thanks a lot everyone. I will follow your advice and hopefully this group will pull through!
I'm not trying to convert anyone with this group though, I am just trying to get current atheists help for accepting and coming out... etc...

We don't have any religious groups at our school.. that I know of, but we do have independent groups like GSA (Gay Straight Alliance) and things like that. But we do have this group called "The Fellowship" which I without doubt think is more of a religious thing..
We also have this church across the street that badgers everyone who passes with godspeak and, for us non-theists, hate speak. lol..

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Permalink Reply by Jimmy Eagleton on March 29, 2010 at 1:03am

Yeah, generally, that's what i was thinking. I am in high school, and i don't know why but people seem more drone like here. it's disturbing. no one is exactly open minded or freethinking at all. and i always tell them, everytime they get hateful in any way, "All my life, i have been open to your ideas. I respect your ideas. Why can't you respect mine?"

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Permalink Reply by Swanjackal on April 25, 2010 at 7:34am

Start a freethinking club, I'm sure any true science department would back this up as it stimulates critical thinking. Don't fully associate it with just anti-theism. Use various topics....cancer research, key movements in history, nuclear power etc. Stimulate thought for the pros and cons, stimulate thinking and hopefully then people can come around to a logical way of thinking in their own analysis, not only will this help people see the "wood through the trees" when it comes to religion without making you look like a "fire and brimstone" preacher yourself, but it would also open peoples eyes to real life situations and towards possible solutions, and take them away from answers in historical fiction/science fiction.

I have found if you push hard on someone in faith they just back into it more.

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Permalink Reply by Jason George on April 25, 2010 at 9:14am

Sounds like you want to proselytize your world view and encourage freethought at the same time, which are mutually exclusive goals. You may want to step back and refocus what you are wanting to do, and be careful not to confuse your means with your goals. You will be less frustrated and disappointed in the end.

Also, don't be so quick to alienate the school faculty. Any successful club is going to need an advocate from the school, so you you may need to find someone sympathetic to your cause or principle. And most educators will be inclined to support the personal growth of students or interest in academia.

Step back, refocus, and forge some relationships.

Best wishes. Your success can have lasting benefit to your school and community.

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