I keep hearing a lot about how all atheists are pro-abortion. I am an atheist. I have been since age 14. I personally believe in a woman’s right to choose but this is my personal belief. I do not believe that atheism dictates pro-abortion. Are there any atheists out there who are anti-abortion and how do you feel about President Obama’s position on abortion?

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Sydni i din't get an email saying you posted this. I'll give a reply to this more considered post when I have time.
Sydni facts are one thing how you deal with them is another.

As Tooley has pointed out, if we use the foundational justification of personhood, new borns aren't cogntive persons and infanticide on these grouds are justified regardles sof viability.

Also one could use the exact same facts about lack of financial resources both personal and goverment to justify unwanted post partum non person human children infantacide. Much abuse and suffering could be avoided for both children and adults if this were so.


BTW Sorry it isn't clear that I have the same exact stance as conservatives, I've pointed this out in posts but I'll be generous as allow that you may have missed them.

I allow it in rape where the mothers life is at risk; in those cases it is justified as self defence and she is an innocent party.

The reason that relatively so few women take this up is because as i've stated earlier on this has become a identity issue which is often assummed by most women to be supporting female rights. There are infact Pro-Life Feminists but as the % of people that question the foundations of the group they most identify with is always very small, like atheists most females that want to support female rights will accept this position without question.

Next you may be grateful but I know other women that regretted the decision later on, and I bet one could find parents who would be grateful if it was legal to kill unwanted children for whatever reason. We do seem to get murders along these lines do we not?

& it isn't really about ones own body if that were so a man wouldn't be paying child support nor would there be so much focus on personhood as morally relevant. Yes we have Thompsons Violinist analogy-google it-but many philosophers grant the this only applies to rape.

The elephant in the room that indicates this is a load of BS as far as reproductive and bodily autonomy is that under these justification ALL late term abortions should be allowed. But somehow your reproductive and bodily autonomy rights have be abrogated by viability. But you see when you look at it closely viability doesn't change the fact that they aren't persons nor that your the females body is still IN USE! This is a Ad Hoc fallacy.

It is just for Liberals sloppy reasoning is convenient when legality favours your side.
Liberal or Progressive philosophers by&large stay away from viability because they know they are on a loser, but since the law favours them their is no onus to object on viability.
Simon JM writes: "Mary, viability can cut it with street corner arguments between the uninformed, but for many academic philosophers it very problematic for a number of reasons."

This thread asked about our/my personal view on abortion/choice. Not academic philosophers' or current lawmakers' views except for my view on President Obama's view.

My personal view, if I were Empress of Everything and the legal issue were up to me and me alone, is that the line is drawn at viability of the fetus.

It also seems that my use of the word 'personhood' is causing confusion. Googling it, I didn't realize this is a term co-opted by the anti-choice movement to put a fully developed adult soul on a 3 week fetus. When I spoke of 'personhood' in this thread, my context was 'humanoid lifeform viable outside the womb.'

Unviable, in my personal opinion, a fetus is not a person.
Mary same as above I'll reply when I get some free time.

Thankyou both for your time.
Yes and personal views are fine as long as you can reason through or justify the foundations of those views. & historically not a very good way to base ones ethics on. Sincerely moral people have justified things from slavery to racism and sexism because they were the norms or personal views of those times.

So you should be able to tell me why viabilty is important, and what personhood has to do with moral values or rights?

& Sorry you won't find a definition on perosnhood that has anything to do with how you have framed it. I'll help you out with links if you sincerely want to do this step by step and it won't be going to Pro-Life sites but various philosophy web sites.
What I find interesting about the issue of abortion is how much in common the pro-life and the pro-choice camps have in common. Ask most pro-choicers how they feel about abortion as a form of birth control and they'll tell you that it's a bad idea. Ask how people feel about late term abortions and again you'll find a lot of people are uncomfortable with the topic.

For me personally I'd say that the laws need to reflect these attitudes. I myself support abortions in most scenarios. There is a serious need for sex-education which takes into account all the risks that come with abortions. Having said all this I do feel that if abortions are to be done it should be early in the pregnancy with late ones only being available when there are special circumstances.
Why just early?
-Health risks to the mother
-fully formed foetus' are more likely to have some degree of self awareness
-Medical staff will be less traumatised.
-Health risks to the mother
I've read that this risk can be overrated,-esp given cesarean options- surley we could kill the late term and then just go ahead with the cesarean that may have occured anyway? I'm willing to explore that further though.

-fully formed foetus' are more likely to have some degree of self awareness

& the relevance of that to not having personhood? A potential person isn't a person after all :)

-Medical staff will be less traumatised.

& the relevance of that is? So if I could find a doctor willing to do it it must therefore be OK :)
Haven't read all the posts yet, but I didn't notice any clearly pro-life (anti-abortion) atheists in what I did read. I have noticed, as one commenter said, that most atheists tend to be left-wing on the US political spectrum and hence pro-choice.
OK then. I'll pipe in. I am an atheist and I am against abortion except in those very rare cases where the mother would die due to the continuation of the pregnancy (e.g., ectopic pregnancies).
The anatomy professor I used to work for (an agnostic himself) had essentially the same position. He was instrumental in my adapting the position I hold. Why? Because his position depended not on religion, but on his knowledge of embryology. (He taught it along with some other topics in the medical school.)
There was a whole collection of human fetuses, from about 2 weeks until about 32 weeks, in his lab. One of the things I did while there was to take measurements, photos, and notes on these fetuses. Needless to say, I got pretty familiar with what a baby in the womb looks like at every age, and how the whole development process goes.
Looking at these fetuses closely like that made their individuality clear to me. I knew that the ones younger than about 25 weeks would have had little chance of survival outside the mother, but while they were dependent on the mother, they were "part of her". They were individuals. They were part of the continuum of human life. And their lives (yes, they were living when in the womb) had been ended by the will and hand of other humans. I recall that a few were accidental/spontaneous abortions, so they'd be exceptions to what I just said, but most of them had no defects as far as I could tell.
The idea that just because one person found them inconvenient or unwanted was enough to stop these perfectly healthy lives, just doesn't sit right.
Enough for now. There you have my reasons for being against abortion except in the most extreme, rare, and unavoidable circumstances.
Haven't read all the posts yet, but I didn't notice any clearly pro-life (anti-abortion) atheists in what I did read.

Did you overlook my posts? :)
So Josh about the subject itself? Do you have a consistent stance on why you support abortion and not infanticide?

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