So I reluctantly talked to my next-door militant right-wing, born-again, f-ing crazy neighbor because we walked out of our (close together) garage doors at the same time. Her granddaughter is in inpatient treatment for anorexia. I politely asked how she was doing. I should have known better. Well. They know some people whose granddaughter had anorexia for 5 years, and after 5 years of praying, she was cured. WHAT?!!! What about the counselors, and doctors, etc.?! No, it's all about the praying. Well I am mad I didn't have the guts to ask why they put her in treatment at all if it's just about praying?! THEN. She starts in on ObamaCare, and Socialists, and how "they" (meaning poor and not white) are going to take all the medical care away from "us" (white and middle-class.) Then I DID say, that you cannot morally let little kids die because they have no medical care. To which she said that they get the treatment they need anyway, and we are all going to have to die at 70 if Obamacare doesn't stop. There really was no reason to even argue with her, it would be like arguing with a potato. She KNOWS we have a son with type 1 diabetes who needs to stay on our healthcare, etc. I truly believe you can't be a republican and follow jebus at the same time. She wouldn't get it if I explained it to her until I was blue in the face.
I'm done being nice. I will wave my hand at her when I see her, but that's it. She is immoral, and thinks she's superior to me (although if I actually told her what I thought of her religion, she'd probably drop dead from shock.)
I know Dennis, right? I'm just grateful our young-adult kids can stay on our ins. until age 26 since our son has type 1 diabetes. Also, he can't be denied insurance for a pre-exsisting condition. At least it's a start. I told the idiot woman that we have to do SOMETHING in this country so we could all have healthcare, and she said that "THEY" always get it anyway, and are taking it away from "US." I was stunned.
I think it's great you give your atheist views. I try. This woman is going to get an earful next time. She will probably faint when she finds out she's been living next to ATHEISTS for 22 years! lol. People just can't believe they aren't special. Well they are special, just like EVERYONE ELSE! ha ha. I love that saying.~ Mindy
Dennis, agreed! If the facts be known, he doesn't have to be dead to be freed. The freeing occurs here and now or not at all. Well, belief is a tough little rascal with which to deal. . How did you come to terms with the soul delusion? My struggle wasn't my soul, it was a delusion of loss of my community.
The fact was, my community supported delusions and inhibited my healthy development.
To live 22 years next to a woman with values in such conflict with your values has to be a stress. Even seeing her would start my stomach roiling. To listen to her silly nonsense would add untold strain. I hope you don't share a driveway, stairwell, or bedroom wall with her.
If enough of us feel good about our not having compelling evidence that god or jesus or angels intervene in our lives, and if we feel a sense of community with each other, then perhaps that would help each of us being able to ignore and avoid believers in delusions?
I also wonder if enough of us can feel powerful, effective, efficient, and influential, we can ignore bigotry and it would lose it's influence on our reactions?
Being content and proud of who we are and what we believe, knowing we are on to something very important, participating with others as we enjoy the fact of our minds being unbound, and that we share in a common effort to be completely and absolutely free to think and reason, perhaps we don't need to convince others they are wrong.
Their lives already reveal bigotry, prejudice, and hate mongering. Let them wallow in their dogma, justify their misery as they claim the power of prayer, and as they feel the natural consequences of basing their values on delusions. They build their own fire of hell, shape the pot of obedience and conformity to dogma, and jump in with their whole mind/body/soul and wonder why their lives suck.
If they ask why we look, sound, and act confidently, competently and courageously, it is because we have an awareness of who we are and how we evolved. We didn't come from some magic of dirt and spit. Whether they want to hear it or not is none of our business. We do have a rationale for why we trust our knowledge. It does not require obedience or submission or domination. It involves being who you/I/we are. It works because of our self respect. When we participate with others of like mind and think of a far wider vision than narrowing in on salvation, sacrifice and entitlement, we have power.
Our power does not come from being attached to some "higher power" it comes from knowing ourselves and our values.
You can stand tall, proud, strong, confident, and compassionate, Mindy, and let her wallow in her own bile.
Angela, it's so scary how many people give all the credit to their praying when someone heals, etc. Why didn't their "god" just take away the problem in the first place if he/she/or it is all-knowing? Why does he/she/it make them beg?
Joan, the funny thing is is that they act like they are just the sweetest people. They do everything right, and WE are the heathens next-door. I know she's heard me swear a million times. Luckily we don't share a wall or driveway, but our houses are pretty close together, and we share a fence in the backyard.
Reading the book When Bad Things Happen to Good People many years ago helped my own evolution of thought. Rabbi Harold Kushner described how after losing his son, he came to believe in a god that's not very powerful, that can't prevent or take away problems and tragedies, as the only viable and humane option he could conceive of.
It's indeed scary how many people give their god the credit for healing someone, or saving a few people in a disaster, yet assign their god absolutely no blame for causing the illness or disaster in the first place.
I read that book too. It always amazes me how really bright people can rationalize an impossible deity. He can't be omniscient, and omnipotent, and loving. Not with the world as it is. So they change some definitions, pretend reality isn't real, or otherwise get around the lies they claim to believe. We have Mormons on one side, Catholics on the other, and my wife is liberal protestant. As long as religion never comes up, everything's pleasant. I have my serious conversations elsewhere -- like with my three humanist grandkids.
Strange how these things come up in bunches. I just checked facebook to see my sister in law had reposted an absolutely awful picture of a baby with a major infection in her eye. The eye was swollen closed and protruded out over an inch from her face.
The suggestion given? Yep, you guessed it - pray for the baby.
Egads!!! My first thought was "GET THAT BABY TO A DOCTOR!!!!"
Maybe the prayer thing is just a feelgood response for people who know they're not going to do anything about the problem but want everyone to think they're concerned.
Maybe they're early version, pre-internet concern trolls.
I feel for you Booklover. Your neighbor is the perfect example of how Fundamental Christianity has destroyed her ability to deal with reality. Her world view has boiled down to "It's us against them" (Them) being anyone that doesn't agree with her religious or political views. She doesn't see that her Christian beliefs actually go against what Jesus taught and the quote below says it loud and clear.
Obama is not a foreigh born, brown skinned, anti-war socialist who provides free health care
You're thinking of Jesus (from a bumper sticker I saw)
I LOVE the bumper-sticker saying John! :)
Actually she knows I disagree with her, but she's trying to "teach me." Next time I will seriously go off on her and tell her what a bigoted, pushy, hypocrite she is. She'll probably faint.
Oh boy, I think I will do an options exploration on this, if you don't mind:
1. Call her names, tell her exactly what you think of her, let her know, in clear terms, how judgmental you think she is.
2. Express your disgust, dismay, rejection of her beliefs, why you refute her beliefs and be clear about the superstitions, Stone Age philosophy, and the sheep herder warlords who wrote what is now the bible.
3. Describe to her how little effectiveness you see in god's interventions, how many people suffer and die under the yoke of Abrahamic faiths, what cruel fates women suffer because of the hatred of women. Religion sees two kinds of women, Eva and the harlot. Real women are neither.
4. A family or community who follows the principles of the faithful have permission to own slaves, to mistreat them, to beat wives and children, even expect men to control women and children, even if it means criminal assaults. Some even put trust into their religion when medicine is needed, even for their small children who are helpless in their parent's ignorance. Scaring children with fabrications of hell and eternal damnation should be charged with child abuse and held accountable for their children's fears and nightmares.
5. Telling people that homosexuality is as curable as indigestion reveals such profound ignorance it is hard for me to stay rational. Using lies about skin color, gender, sexual orientation, family violence all present indicaters that one does not use their natural thinking processes. They use propaganda to indoctrinate others even in the face of evidence to the contrary.
6. Claiming to love everyone is the biggest lie of all. There is no love in racism, sexism, homophobia, or blaming people for their misfortune, or looking down on the poor by giving them crumbs off their abundant table, thinking they are helping. Well, it is not so. When people live under tyranny and suffer displacement, or denial of their humanity, and to not address the structural problems directly, and instead they use the claim to pray, They do not get the full picture of how and why the people became decimated. The very act of feeding crumbs is a palliative for their own undeserved wealth.