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A question about agnoticism and atheism

I know this isn't a big deal for many people who actually consider themselves true agnostics or atheists, but I don't. However, I find it a little strange that this question is being asked on your personal profile to valdiate your "right" as a member. I know I am not the only one who isn't a clearcut atheist/agnostic here (there are some theists also I believe) and maybe these questions could be changed, perhaps removed?

I myself find it a little weird though as a pagan that I must press either atheist or agnostic as options or I theorically am not valid as a member here. I mean, we aren't THAT anal about it, right? I remember when this site was pretty new also there was a discussion about allowing theists who acted reasonable into our discussions and I still see no reason why not. I am not personally offended, I just find it strange.

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Permalink Reply by Chrys Stevenson on January 25, 2009 at 5:13pm

I understand that the official view is that this is a site intended specifically for atheists and agnostics. That would mean anyone who does not have supernatural beliefs. A broader term, perhaps, may be non-theists.

I'm not really familiar with paganism, but I understand that it does incorporate supernatural beliefs and, in some cases, a belief in spirits, gods and goddesses.

If, as a Pagan, you hold supernatural beliefs, then, strictly speaking, this site is not intended for you.

However, I don't think there is any particular push to expel Pagans from the website - our concern is mainly with theists who wish to use AN as a forum for debate/conversion/trouble making. If you were using AN to try to convince us of your beliefs, or to denigrate our lack of belief, you may find yourself out on your ear. ;-)

I have no sense that Pagans are unwelcome on this site, but I think if identifying as an 'atheist' or 'agnostic' makes you uncomfortable, you may have to consider whether you are in the right place. This section of the sign up process is currently under review, I believe, and if you think there is a word other than atheist or agnostic that would fit you - but still means 'lacking any supernatural beliefs' - I can certainly make a suggestion that it be included.

As I understand it, there are no plans to include theists on Atheist Nexus. It is not the intent of this site. The exclusion of non-theists will stand, but if you do not hold any supernatural beliefs and believe the terms used in the sign-up are not appropriate to you, suggest something and I'll see that the right people are made aware of your request.

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Permalink Reply by Brother Richard on January 25, 2009 at 6:33pm

Yes Atheist Nexus membership is limited to atheists and agnostics only:

Based on the simplistic and original definitions, they are defined as follows:

Atheist: (Without god). Someone who is without belief or alliance in a deity.

Agnostic: (Without knowledge). Someone who has the belief that it is impossible to know whether any gods exist.

This being stated, there are a lot of freedom within those definitions. These are just umbrella terms. Not all atheists are naturalists, or humanists, or brights, or skeptics, etc.

LeaT you have been "grandfathered" into the Nexus. As these rules were not specified when you joined A|N. However, we must enforce these rules. It is up to you to decide if you meet the qualifications. As Kristy stated, we are a community of non-theists.

Also, it should be noted that we are seriously considering starting a sister site where we can open dialogue between people of all beliefs.

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Permalink Reply by Kozz on January 25, 2009 at 6:41pm

I personally don't think there is a theist alive that would sign up here to have a "reasonable" discussion. They pretty much try to stay as far away from mental dissonance as possible, and they would be stepping into a pile of it here. The only worry about theists joining is really just spamming scripture everywhere and causing a flurry of useless bandwidth activity.

Perhaps you could also explain what you mean by paganist. Either you believe in deities or you don't. If you don't you are an Atheist, if you do you are a not. Pagan is a very broad term and your profile doesn't really clarify it.

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Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on January 25, 2009 at 8:02pm

LeaT,

This site is not a battleground for our cause, nor a site for arguing with theists. This site is a sanctuary, a safe haven, away from the insane. It is for like minds to socialise, share ideas and mingle. You can see this by how civilised the place is. Why ? Because "believers" of whatever flavour aren't here. Lets keep it that way.

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Permalink Reply by Chrys Stevenson on January 25, 2009 at 8:32pm

I agree, Felch. And, while I think a sister site for debates with theists may be a good idea, I fear that it may tarnish the good name of Atheist Nexus if people get hot-headed and start slinging insults at each other, instead of calmly attacking arguments.

If the sister site is going to be an educational site, then I think it will have to be firmly moderated - something that is, I know, anathema to many atheists.

I just know that I don't want to be associated with something where Christians are being called fuckwits and morons. That does nothing for AN and it does nothing to pass on the great depth of information and expertise that exists on this site.

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Permalink Reply by Brother Richard on January 25, 2009 at 8:37pm

I agree entirely Kristy. This is one of my main concerns with having such a site. It must meet the requirements you have laid out.

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Permalink Reply by Chrys Stevenson on January 25, 2009 at 8:55pm

Actually, I've just been thinking about this while I've been making my Australia Day lunch. ;-)

I KNOW this is going to sound a bit elitist, but we have so many very learned people on this site - particularly some of our college professors. Perhaps one solution, perhaps at least in the short term to 'set a tone' might be just to get together a panel of experts to answer questions from theists. That would make the site something of a transitional one. If you have questions of faith and you want them answered outside your faith group, here is a group of experts who can help, and will not abuse you.

Perhaps if that works then, ultimately, the site could be opened up more generally, but with strict guidelines and moderated by the panel.

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Permalink Reply by funk Q on January 25, 2009 at 9:44pm

Kristy, elitist is good. If such a site had one sector for serious, monitored debate and discussion maybe another sector could be set aside to be an open chat room with f'n'ms (no holds barred).

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Permalink Reply by Goz on February 16, 2009 at 5:40pm

A Linux site I use is set up like that...When a person has a certain number of posts and shows themselves to be of good character,they move to the second secret level . The third level is just for the mods.
There is also a chat room with the ability to have private "rooms".

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Permalink Reply by Chrys Stevenson on January 25, 2009 at 10:28pm

Yes, but that still reflects on the serious nature of AN. If we want to be taken seriously by the non-theist community we don't want to be associated with World Championship Wrestling style brawls under our banner.