Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Daniel Williams on May 12, 2011 at 3:43pm

The whole concept of infinite time before the start of the universe is flawed as proved by Einstein. He discovered that time is connected to space as a single concept which he called Space Time.  So before the start of the universe, there was no space and therefore by default, no time. Difficult to get your head around because we as humans live and think in a linear fashion to the extent that to try and imagine 'No Time' is almost impossible.

So if there was no time before the beginning of the Universe, then any creator that exists in time (infinite or otherwise) would have to have instantly appeared to create the universe at the exact moment that the universe (space time) began. This obviously does not make any sense at all because if the creator appeared or 'began' at a specific point in time (namely the very first instant), who or what instigated the 'beginning' of the creator? Who created the creator?

Permalink Reply by mistercliff on May 13, 2011 at 7:54pm

I hate to be cynical, but in any argument where you would have to use a logical argument such as this you are talking with someone who could never accept it. You can't have a debate with people like this, only arguments since you are coming from two different approaches at understanding the universe: your approach is one of evidence, understanding, and interpretation; their approach is one of feeling. Without a major upheaval, they can never accept what you are saying because it FEELS wrong. You understand that it doesn't matter how things feel, there are facts and they can't change due to one's gut. So a debate is impossible and I personally am tired of arguments. You've already won the argument, but it's just going to end with a "let's agree to disagree" unless your opponent can learn critical thinking.

Permalink Reply by Jared Lardo on June 5, 2011 at 9:08pm

Some christian dude, though I have no idea who, when, or where, basically responded to this a long time ago, but nobody much cares.  He said something like "When god made the universe, he also made time." considering this possible state of affairs, that means that even if said Mr. Yahweh existed/exists through/in an infinite amount of some dimension (flavor, temperature, bulk modulus, whatever), he'd necessarily only exist in terms of the time dimension back to the beginning of time itself, with there being no "before" the beginning of time in the same sense as how you can't go north of the north pole and can't go further to the right within a block of some material than the rightmost extent of the block without exiting the block and thus not existing in the dimension-as-described which requires that you be within the block.

 

It seems like kind of a cheat, but it's not.  It's just reality trolling us.

Permalink Reply by Lucy McDonnell on June 23, 2011 at 3:45am

If you take turtles for example, who are some of the longer living creatures we know, and ever so slow, then maybe S/He was a little 'slow' at coming up with the idea, LOL!

What we know so far is that time and space are both infinite and relative and that the universe possesses an equally infinite quantity of possibilities.

That intelligent life presumes an equally intelligent or at the very least living source is not a totally discountable argument. But we tend to define 'intelligence' according to socially imposed parameters and definitions of calculated ingeniousness which give out an altogether biased notion of the nature of this 'hypotethical' sentient being.  For all we know, it could well be that in his infinity, his intellingence is just some automatic reflex devoid of any deliberate consciousness, like those that sometimes occur in comatose people.

 

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