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Original Sin

I've always wanted to bring in the idea of Original Sin in my discussions with Christians. We all know that it was the temptation of Eve, of partaking of the Fruit of Knowledge, that was considered the first sin.

Now, I understand that it is impossible to differentiate between good and evil, right and wrong, without first knowing the difference.

Comments? Did Eve know what she was doing?

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Permalink Reply by THE GRENADIAN FREETHINKER on August 21, 2008 at 1:11pm

I was born in christian cult of Catholism, and that's all I knew. My Country is made up of 90% christian, the 10% other are largly Rastafarian who in my view are also Christians. However, althow I was born into the Catholic Christian Cult I was never taught about original sin. Can you give me some more insite on what is original sin or also point me to some book I can read.

Thank you !

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Permalink Reply by Fizzy on August 21, 2008 at 5:09pm

In christianity, "Original Sin" is the doctrine that all humans are born "in sin" because Adam ate a piece of fruit. It's a kind of hereditary guilt trip. Baptism is supposed to clear it up (depending on your particular cult), but a baptized individual still passes it on to their descendants.

To me, it reads like this: Your grandfather steals something trivial; he serves time in prison and is released. Then your father is born, he is also sent to prison to serve time for your grandfather's act. Your father is released and eventually you are born. Even though two prison terms have already been served for the original theft, you get shipped off to a third. Your children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren on for ever will also be sent to jail. Oh, and when any of you are done with your life, you'll (probably) be tortured forever.

Original Sin at Wikipedia

"'Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. I did an original sin. I poked a badger with a spoon.' 'Say five Hail Mary's and six Hello Dolly's!'" ~ Eddie Izzard

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Permalink Reply by LoLo on August 21, 2008 at 9:23pm

"Vicar, I have done many bad things."
-"Well, so have I."
"What shall I do?"
-"Well, drink five Bloody Marys and you won't remember."
-Eddie Izzard

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Permalink Reply by THE GRENADIAN FREETHINKER on October 1, 2008 at 9:46am

Lots of info...
Following the logic of the so called "Original Sin" that will mean that Jesus was a sinful man. As the Bible points out, Jesus was the son of man, or son of the human name Mary. Mary inherite her "Original Sin" from her parents who inturn inherited it from their parents, and so on ...... back to Adam and Eve. That's stupid.
Jesus had to inherite this "Original Sin" because he was born a human, from the womb of a human being.

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Permalink Reply by George Kane on October 1, 2008 at 11:20am

Not according to the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. The Immaculate Conception is the miracle that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was born without the stain of Original Sin.

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Permalink Reply by Fizzy on August 21, 2008 at 5:19pm

Nope.

Its really the story of a god who creates some people and says to them, "Hey guys, run around and have a good time (don't worry about what 'good' means, you don't need to know). Do whatever you'd like, but remember it would be bad (don't worry about what 'bad' means either, its too complicated) if you ate those delicious fruits over there."

They run around and eventually eat some fruit they aren't supposed to (maybe it's spoiled?). Then the god says, "You jerks! You ate from the tree of good, evil, and dictionaries! I told you that was bad!" And the people respond, "Well, we get it now. But you didn't let us know what you actually meant. We figured it was some kind of divine slang you'd made up. Why did you even put the tree there in the first place?"

The god says, "I don't care. I was saving that fruit for my tea party and now my dollies won't have anything to eat! I hate you! I hate you! You're not my real father! Get out of my room!"

And that's when the people backed quietly away, out of the garden, and shut the door behind them.

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Permalink Reply by YH on August 22, 2008 at 12:57am

Very good point.

I wonder what Christians would respond to this.

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Permalink Reply by Doug on August 23, 2008 at 8:56am

We need to find some Christians to talk to.

I wonder if we could start a Christian & Atheist discussion page :-)

There must be good Christians out there who are willing to come and try to save our souls.

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Permalink Reply by Doug on August 23, 2008 at 8:54am

Adam and Eve we are told were the innocents they were as children and God was their father.

Like all good fathers the first time they fucked up and made a mistake he punished them but not just them all their children for the rest of time.

What a great role model for Christian fathers!

( I know I have tried to torture my children for eternity just like God did his :-)

God is love but don't touch the apples OK !!

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Permalink Reply by Anath on August 23, 2008 at 3:11pm

All of this is based on the presupposition that "sin" exists. If God doesn't exist, then does sin? Nope!

There is also no way Eve could have known what she was doing, because she hadn't done it yet. Every definition of "sin" that I was taught when we were studying to make our first confessions implied knowingly doing something wrong, such as stealing from a store. However, if you took something from somewhere that seemed "ok" and didn't know that you were technically stealing, it was not a sin. Eve didn't "know" it was "bad" to go against God's commands, and therefore it could not have been a sin.

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Permalink Reply by Anath on August 26, 2008 at 11:35am

Agreed, "make mistakes" or errors might be better phrasing. Unfortunately there really is no godless version of "sin"...

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Permalink Reply by LeaT on August 24, 2008 at 8:12am

She didn't, since she obviously had no knowledge before she ate it, since the fruit gave her knowledge to understand the causes of eating it, or whatever... What a silly paradox.

Also, to categorize good/evil is one of the most useless dogmatic things I have found in Christianity in particular, because, good and evil will always be through the eye of the beholder. What one sees as good is evil in the eyes of another, because what benefits another doesn't necessarily benefit the rest. That's how it is, and I find it rediculous a majority of Christians still don't understand this very simplistic fact. Life is not THAT simple where you can draw a line on every single human on this earth saying "this is right and this is wrong". This is most of all very evident in moral questions without any real answer, such as abortion.